How does Sorcery work?

[Nick Brooke]

Given that play is set during the Hero Wars, morality is up for grabs.

Cultural relativism is the norm in Glorantha, and it will become especially harsh as the Hero Wars progress.

For an alternate take, check out the old (but still enlightening) Premise in Hero Wars? thread. Ron's summary (7th post down):

The Old World and its values is over. This is what I think we need to do now. What, for your player-characters, is the "This"?

Now, that works for me. (But do check the surrounding context -- I found it  deeply cool and insightful). But it kinda cuts against your vision (i.e. that in the Hero Wars period, Heortlings remain uber-Orlanthi, Lunars keep on hailing the Reaching Moon, etc., never questioning their beliefs and values despite the ensuing cosmic calamities). As we say, though, YGWV.

Cheers, Nick

edited: Red Moon => Reaching Moon

[simon_hibbs]

Tapping is generaly considered to be as moraly reprehensible as consorting with chaos, so it's not the sort of thing you'd normaly expect PCs to engage in anyway although obviously to portray evil sorcerer NPCs with such abilities you need rules for it.

um, aren't these the same forums that discuss the game Sorcerer? Why should I limit my gaming experience to expecting PCs to only engage in conduct that's not considered "moraly reprehensible" by the setting's NPCs?

I used the term 'normaly expect' advisedly. Of course you can do whatever you like in your game and I have not said otherwise. I'm merely giving one explanation why the game doesn't have rules for Tapping at the moment. The core rules are designed to support what the authors imagine to be the most likely or common modes of play. All games do that, but it doesn't mean that other modes of play are necesserily wrong. I think there are good reasons why worshiping chaos horrors and tapping aren't presented as standard player character options in the game.

Is it all right to Tap if it means you can re-organize (some would say blaspheme) your clan's myth during a HeroQuest, and thus preserve your community in the face of the troll army passing through?

The ways of The Dark Side are easy and tempting, but we still all know it's the Dark Side, and using it against your enemies is wrong even if that guy did kill your father.


Simon Hibbs

[contracycle]

I think there are good reasons why worshiping chaos horrors and tapping aren't presented as standard player character options in the game.

One problem though is that it might not be the players who want to know it and use it so much as the GM.  Obviously, if this is morally reprehensible, then its an excellent signpost of the villains villainy; for this reason alone I think theree is a good argument to be made for the inclusion of this sort of 'bad guy' schtick.

[pete_darby]

"Your storm voice lied to you... I AM YOUR FATHER!"

Flaw: inappropriate pop-culture references 18W2

[Nick Brooke]

One problem though is that it might not be the players who want to know it and use it so much as the GM.  Obviously, if this is morally reprehensible, then it's an excellent signpost of the villain's villainy; for this reason alone I think there is a good argument to be made for the inclusion of this sort of 'bad guy' schtick.

Simon already acknowledged this above:

... obviously to portray evil sorcerer NPCs with such abilities you need rules for it.

Anyhow, I think we're lurching towards a consensus on Tapping in HeroQuest; for my part, I'm rather fond of Julian Lord's ideas (expressed on one of the HeroQuest Yahoo!Groups) re: how all forms of Gloranthan Sorcery 'tap' particular flows of power. I'd post the reference, if only I could access those archives from the office... :-(

Cheers, Nick

[Scripty]

One problem though is that it might not be the players who want to know it and use it so much as the GM.  Obviously, if this is morally reprehensible, then its an excellent signpost of the villains villainy; for this reason alone I think theree is a good argument to be made for the inclusion of this sort of 'bad guy' schtick.

That's pretty much where I was/am. I wanted to know what "tapping" was because I was planning on using the HeroQuest rules for other settings (i.e. Midnight and Hyborea) and wanted to know if it would be appropriate.

It is appropriate for creatures like astiraxes and the other magic-draining minions of Izrador in Midnight. It's not appropriate for the character class (now occupation) of Channelers (which I had previously thought it might be).

It's totally appropriate for Conan villains. Not so appropriate for PCs, but I'd be willing to let it slide with the right concept and a fitting trade-off for the PC.

For me, not really explaining "Tapping" was a hindrance. I'm going to be running a game. It would be nice to know that this is the mechanism whereby Vampires gain their powers. Perhaps including it in the Narrators' chapter (where optional rules and other miscellanea can be found (like Edges/Handicaps)) would have been a compromise between letting players know that this is not a "normal" option for them as PCs, but still giving the Narrator the widest range of tools available to run her campaigns.

[simon_hibbs]

Anyhow, I think we're lurching towards a consensus on Tapping in HeroQuest; for my part, I'm rather fond of Julian Lord's ideas (expressed on one of the HeroQuest Yahoo!Groups) re: how all forms of Gloranthan Sorcery 'tap' particular flows of power. I'd post the reference, if only I could access those archives from the office... :-(

I think the difference is that the mainstream churches use renewable sources of power, while tapping is an easier but non-renewable approach.

Simon Hibbs