Usefulness (or uselessness) of Sample Heroes

[dunlaing]

As Peter requested, I made this a seperate thread. I took the title from his post, I don't mean to imply that I think they're useless.

I found the sample characters very useful. Much as a heroin addict might find methadone useful. They give me a little relief while I wait for the Warehouse 23 Order Status page to say something other than "At the Printer."

Once I get the book, I'll be starting up a HeroQuest campaign. The sample characters will also be useful to me in that the HeroQuest character generation methods can be confusing at first (and one player hasn't played Hero Wars). These examples of narrative method with character sheets will go a long way towards convincing him (and the others) that the character generation really is that simple.

They also bring up some questions though...

Take for example the Puma Person thief.
He gets Shapechange to Puma 17 (presumably as part of the Puma People Homeland keyword). Does he need to apply the D+20 for changing one's own form when he tries to shapechange into a Puma?

And what about his Dog? His Dog gets decent abilities (they're better than the abilities pof the Scholar's apprentice). How do you determine sidekick abilities?

[Nick Brooke]

They also bring up some questions though...

Take for example the Puma Person thief.
He gets Shapechange to Puma 17 (presumably as part of the Puma People Homeland keyword). Does he need to apply the D+20 for changing one's own form when he tries to shapechange into a Puma?

Nope: without the HeroQuest rules you wouldn't know, but this is the Special Puma People Magic Ability: they only have to beat the default resistance of 14 to shapechange into a puma, not the usual D+20. I guess this is because "puma" is their own form, at least as much as "human" is...

Cheers, Nick

[Bankuei]

Overall, I find sample characters extremely useful, for a couple of reasons.

1) Did I do this right?

If there's any part of character creation that eludes me, I can always check the sample to see if I'm doing it right.  Thankfully HW/HQ doesn't have buttloads of number juggling, so it's not like its very hard to grasp to begin with.  For some folks, they may be used to the "skill list" instead of a "make your own traits" style of game, in which case, sample heroes are an excellent way to demonstrate how it can be used.

2) Gimme an NPC, now!

Sample heroes work well for this, as well as giving you ideas for what kinds of skills and such a particular sort of character SHOULD have.

3) I want to play, NOW!

Need PCs, like right away?  There you go.

Pretty obvious stuff, right?

Chris

[Peter Nordstrand]

Hi folks,

- The Dog

The dog's stats are based on the assumption that all guard dogs have Bite Attack 18. You get to distribute a number of points on your sidekick's abilities, and i spent 3 pts on the dog's Bite Attack.

- Ability Ratings

There are a number of other ability ratings that are incorrect, however, but that will be corrected as soon as possible. (Some sample heroes have a rating of 17 in their special abilities, when it should be 13.)

More soon ...

Cheers,

/Peter N

[Nick Brooke]

(Some sample heroes have a rating of 17 in their special abilities, when it should be 13.)

By the book, yes they "should" be. OTOH, some people (myself included) think it's a mistake that in HeroQuest a hero's distinctive "special" abilities start out lower than every other ability on his or her character sheet... (base rating = 17 for keyword abilities, 13 for non-keyword stuff you added yourself). Heigh ho :-(

Cheers, Nick

[Peter Nordstrand]

The sample characters will also be useful to me in that the HeroQuest character generation methods can be confusing at first (and one player hasn't played Hero Wars).

1) Did I do this right?

Yes, this is how I have always used sample characters in the past. However, I never use the narrative method for first time players anymore. It practically never works out. ("I get to make up my own abilities? There is no list to choose from? How utterly, frighteningly novel. And now you want me to write 100 words ... are you asking me to be creative?" *freaks out and doesn't listen to my instructions*)

When making up the heroes, I deliberately used clichés. I tried to take one concept for each character and stick to it. Some worked out better than others. My favourites are

- The entertainer
He swings from rooftops in pursuit of lawbreakers. Ha also has an arch-enemy major villain adversary, and a Mask of a Thousand Faces.

- The hunter
This is the classic Peredur/Persevalus/Parsifal/Percival setup. He lives like a commoner, but is *actually* the son of a powerful noble.

- The merchant has an elephant sidekick. I want to play a character with an elephant sidekick!

- The warrior
A daimon sidekick instead of a left eye, nightmarish visions from the void, and she masters the Seven Wind Kick.

The cavalry soldier and the healer are the ones I like the least. They aren't really that interesting ... perhaps the clichés used when creating them are too dull?

Cheers,

/Peter N

[Brand_Robins]

I'm currently going through some chargen with my group, and I got a question about the pregen characters, Puma people, and their abilities that I'm a bit stumped on.

In the book it says that Puma People should have two lists for their abilities, one for their human form and one for their puma form. It also says that some abilities will apply to both forms.

My player wasn't sure which abilities should go in which form, or what his starting abilities in his puma form should be. When he went to check the pregen characters there didn't seem to be two lists (puma and human) for the Puma person pregen.

So, my questions are thus:

1. Does a puma person's puma form start with stats equal to those of a normal puma? Or does it start with similar starts at keyword level?
2. Which of the pregens abilities are puma abilities and which are human? (Or should it just be a matter of common sense?)

I appreciate any help that can be given.

[Peter Nordstrand]

When he went to check the pregen characters there didn't seem to be two lists (puma and human) for the Puma person pregen.

Oh crap. Ehm. Sorry.

I'm not sure what was originally intened. Personally I would give the puma form all normal puma abilities except cunning, but at normal keyword level (i.e. 17). Let the player raise the puma abilities during play with hero points as normal.

I wouldn't let the player use puma abilities when in human form, but I might let him use appropriate human abilities as a puma. I.e. as a puma he would be allowed to use the Hide ability but not Work Stone and Wood, since pumas can hide but they have no hands and can't use tools.

I hope this helps.

Cheers,

/Peter N

[Peter Nordstrand]

Hi again,

I talked to Steve Martin at Issaries about this, and he had a couple of clarifications. Brand's question will be added to the HeroQuest FAQ at Issaries' website. However, please note that that this is a preliminary response, and that the FAQ will have the final, official answer.

We actually intended that the Puma player have the puma abilities at normal ability ratings, rather than a keyword rating.

Specifically, the intent was the standard Puma abilities. Even the shell deer sidekick gets the normal shell deer ability ratings, not Shell Deer 17. Hmm, now I wonder if the Puma form shouldn't be treated as a sidekick. :)

It is up to the player and narrator to decide which abilities carry over to the Puma form. Puma abilities do not carry over to human form.

>I wouldn't let the player use puma abilities when in human form, but I
>might let him use appropriate human abilities as a puma. I.e. as a puma
>he would be allowed to use the Hide ability but not Work Stone and Wood,
>since pumas can hide but they have no hands and can't use tools.

Sounds reasonable.

Cheers,

/Peter N

[Brand_Robins]

Thanks a lot!