concept games footnote, politics in games

[John Kim]

Consider the flap over gaming as Satanic. Which threatened in some areas of the US to wipe out RPGs entirely. I think that since then that games have been quite conservative in what they present.

OTOH, I think that this has just become traditional. In recent years things have become a lot more lax, and I think that you'll see some titles that are seemingly controversial. But probably too late to actually be controversial.  

I am somewhat skeptical about this.  I'm sure that the Satanic flap had some affect, especially in the Midwest.  However, when I think of the successful game lines of the 90's, games like Vampire: The Masquerade, Warhammer, and In Nomine spring to mind.  In fact, there was something of a glut on actively blasphemous games like Nephilim, The End, Rapture, In Nomine, Kult, and others.  So while I'm willing to believe that the flack helped keep RPGs out of the mainstream, it doesn't appear to me that game designs of the 90's particularly avoided religious controversy.  

However, games have avoided political controversy.  I'm not sure what this says.  It could be that having ventured into religious controversy, it seemed easier to confront that -- but difficult to court new controversy.  This suggests that new controversy just really needs the ground to be broken.

[taalyn]

I think politics have been incorporated into RPGs for good long time. Dealing with the king (honest or ursurper) is a time-tested plot device, and most of the "biggies" (Vampire, for example) have all sorts of internal politics built into the game.

Now, if you mean, why are there no games about Republicans - it seems to me to be rather dull. I wouldn't play it. I wouldn't play a game about Liberals or the Green Party either - it's just not exciting to me, and judging by the scarcity of such tropes, I have to think it would be pretty boring to others too. I think most people have a good idea of how boring the minutiae of politics can be, and even the really "exciting" moments don't hold a candle to, say, a good car-chase scene.

That said, Crux incorporates politics in two ways. There are essentially political factions in the otherworld, called Rades, and all sorts of magical and mundane intrigue that will directly affect the PCs. On the other side, political factions actually have agendas that incorporate knowledge of the otherworld. The Green Party is actually out to destroy humanity, secretly controlled and manipulated by a Rade in the Plasm. Meanwhile, the Democrats are working with another Rade, the Republicans want nothing to do with any of the otherworld, and are a bit paranoid about it (some recent money dumped into Iraq is "actually" going to fund the war in the Plasm, for example), and Libertarians want to be generally left alone, and do what they can to harmonize the two worlds so they can have that peace. Not proactively, mind you, however.

Aidan

[taalyn]

System hiccup - sorry!

[Tomas HVM]

It all depends how it is presented and handled within the game. A referee who is dogmatic and preachy would be a pain, but it doesn't have to be that way.

Reminds me; once my friends (a bunch of "oldies"; very traditional roleplayers) came to a game session, and met my poster on the wall, telling them the "rules" for the session;

DEW DOWR

- You remember everything

- You are a servant of faith

- You live to serve your church

- Faith makes you happy

- You do not want to return[/list:u]

The session before this one they had become enslaved by an avatar; Dew Dowr, and turned into priest for the faith in the god Kanava, a god demanding human sacrifice and selfhumiliation.

They were thoroughly provoced by this turn of events, and the poster provoced them even more. The religious texts found in the church of this god (three flyers stating the essentials of the faith, including two long prayers), made it very clear that this was a very dark and disciplined cult, not like anything they would consider playing, ever.

It galled them. They stated that I might as well play all the roles myself, for all the '"choice" I gave them. Several of them insisted that "this is not my role", but I persisted in saying that "the soul of your role is enslaved. You are only left with the choice of how to serve this god in the best way". They then threathened to make a bad job, to wich I answered that I would consider that a breach on the rules, and I would not tolerate anyone breaking the rules. I was stone hard and authoritative, forcing them to accept the situation, with much growelling from their side.

However: I had a plan, and it came through like hell (sorry). When the game finally commenced it rose to the sky in quality, subtleness and depht. We had some of the most memorable gaming sessions ever, although the players and their characters were under strict rules as to what they would feel, and what they could do.

The plan was simple, and divided:


1 - to meet the players head on, and make them redefine the way they played. They were left groping for the right way to act on the basis of the religious texts, and not like they were used to; to act on behalf of some principle of self-entertainment.

2 - to create the basis for playing something evil, but with all the fervor of true believers. They were forced to lead sermons, and more important: to lead eachothers in long prayers. They had to pick humans to sacrifice, and to deal with the victims in an effective way, etc.

3 - to make them roleplay not for fun, but with the intent (my intent) of delving into the character of someone enslaved by religious fervor. The underlying message of the game we played under these "rules", was quite propagandistic; fanatics of any faith is happy to force their belief on others, at the expence of happiness and humanity.[/list:u]

In the end most of the characters were saved from the slavery of faith, and the players were saved from my oppression of their free gameplay. I still think I qualified to be called a referee who was "dogmatic and preachy" in this instance, and I was truly a pain for my players!

But pain doesn't have to be a bad thing, Simon.

[Tomas HVM]

However, games have avoided political controversy.  I'm not sure what this says.  It could be that having ventured into religious controversy, it seemed easier to confront that -- but difficult to court new controversy.  This suggests that new controversy just really needs the ground to be broken.

Me think: you right.

We need gamesmiths growing up with RPGs to take the games to the next level; as some media they can use to make cultural, religious and political statements in, besides treating it as a powerful tool for entertainment.

I think RPGs will be better off with gamesmiths using different approaches, not only working under the juvenile assumption of games "being just for fun". It may be "fun" for the players, in many ways, but it certainly must be "serious business" for the gamesmiths.

The serious attitude of a gamesmith may fascilitate the creation of a great game on modern politics, making it clear that the ideals of our forefathers is as sound today as they were then, and as great to explore both in game and reality. Such a game may engage you in ways not expected, and still "entertain" you like nothing else.

As we have not seen anything like it, I consider it a bit premature to state that such a game will be boring to play.

[John Kim]

I think politics have been incorporated into RPGs for good long time. Dealing with the king (honest or ursurper) is a time-tested plot device, and most of the "biggies" (Vampire, for example) have all sorts of internal politics built into the game.

Now, if you mean, why are there no games about Republicans - it seems to me to be rather dull. I wouldn't play it.  I wouldn't play a game about Liberals or the Green Party either - it's just not exciting to me, and judging by the scarcity of such tropes, I have to think it would be pretty boring to others too. I think most people have a good idea of how boring the minutiae of politics can be, and even the really "exciting" moments don't hold a candle to, say, a good car-chase scene.  

You seem to be implying that having relevant political content means a lack of action, which I don't buy.  There is a lot of ground for between generically evil kings and pure political dialogue.  Within the film world, most action films also lack relevance -- but there are some which touch on it, such as (among recent films) Once Upon a Time in Mexico or X2.  There have also many which were genuinely controversial, like Thelma & Louise, Red Dawn, The Manchurian Candidate, along with films like http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0094716/">The Beast of War and http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0283509/">No Man's Land.  

Among RPGs, there are a few which have some relevance.  Recently, Holistic Design has been continuing its d20 http://www.holistic-design.com/Real/RLR.htm">Real Life Roleplaying series, starting with Afghanistan: d20.  GURPS Voodoo confronted questions of imperialism and racism via the split between the Lodges and the voudounistas.  One should also remember that Paranoia was published in 1984, at which time its parody of anti-Communist paranoia was much more relevant than it is today.  

Still, I feel that most games avoid political issues.  For example, GURPS Voodoo is a straight allegory of the fight between local black culture (the voudounistas) and white imperialists (the Lodges).  In contrast, the game Witchcraft could be said to have the same elements, but by putting the Wicce, Rosicrucians, and Sentinels on the same side it muddles any allegory of class or racial conflict.

[Mark Johnson]

I think some are mistaking "factional politics" with the original intent of this thread which is more making sociopolitical commentary.

I do think that RPGs have a significant unrealized capacity for sociopolitical commentary.  My guess is that it is simply not an agenda with most designers.  Satire has always been one of the strongest forms of political commentary.   But except for inward directed genre parody and vaguely postmodern self-reference, few games actually tried political commentary, satirical or otherwise.  Even the target of Paranoia's satire was past its sell-by date when it debuted.

One need only look online to see possible models for a satirical game making comment on sociopolitics.  Here is a gedankengame to illustrate might point:

"The Book Of Races"

This supplement gives the player a full plethora of real world races to use in your modern or historical D20 game!  Tired of Dwarves and Elves?  Play Blacks, Asians, Native Americans, even Jews!   All the races detailed get appropriate bonuses and penalties to skills, attributes, saving throws as well as circumstance modifiers.  Don't worry, White characters aren't cheated either!  All starting Whites get a free feat and bonus skills to start with. This makes them the most versatile race in the entire game.  This tome also includes special race-only feats and prestige classes.  The Racial Preferences Table makes inter-race conflict fast and easy.  While the extensive rules for half-breeds and the miscegenation table will add drama to your game from years to come.

A game need not be so hyperbolic to make its point, certainly.  I am just suprised more people have not done this, that is all.