Magic System: Magic Skills VS Spells

[aghori]

I am considering to implement a skill-based magic system where specific skills like call thunder, command fire, command spirits, healing etc would be used rather than the more generic disciplines/schools like necromancy or elemental magic. Each skill would group several related maneuvers or feats. This approach fits more in my conception of magic buts perhaps will be more complicated to write than a spell list.

Would like to know your opinions on this subject as well as sugerences, comments, or information on fantasy games that take this approach.

PD: English is not my mother tongue so forgive the inaccuracies.

[M. J. Young]

I'm not entirely certain what you're after. To my mind, spells are skills within the specific application of magic; from what are you distinguishing them? I suppose what I'm asking is 1) what do you see as the ordinary use of schools/disciplines in terms of how that's used in play and 2) how is your idea different from this?

--M. J. Young

[aghori]

As you said, spells are skills within the application of magic. Schools then group several related spells or skills. But as my system is skill based, I thought it would be good idea to separate schools into smaller groups.

So lets take for example "Call Thunder"; this skill may allow a character 1) to enchant a weapon with electrical power, 2) to make a thunder strike the chosen target, and 3) provide resistance from electrical attacks. Like any other magic skill it would require willpower, concentration and some knowledge, but the character must develop an special affinity with the Thunder God/Element by doing special penances, rituals, praying etc.

This magic skill view is also more in the line of yoga & tantra lore, where the different mystic powers require different techniques or blessings from a Deity after months or years of spiritual  practice.

One of the advantages of this system is that such magic skills would be accesible even to the warrior types without harming so much game balance (with the help of some other mechanisms).

[failrate]

Some positive aspects can come from this.  One is that magic skills can be created using the same format and rules as other skills.  This makes your game system more symmetrical and possibly easier to use.  Also, if you use skill trees, you could have minor cantrips like Electric Shock lead into the more powerful Call Thunder(enchant), CT(attack), and CT(resistance).  The next level could be another step up, like Call Thundergod or something.  Also, by possessing skills in different departments, like Call Thunder and Call Wind, you could then give magic users access to Call Storm (the idea being that Thunder+Wind = Storm).

[The Benj]

This sounds very similar to the way in which GURPS handles magic. Worth taking a look.

Also, 7th Sea has something like this for its rune magic "Laerdom". Works much the same way.

Ultimately, I think it's a pretty good idea.

[Mike Holmes]

As I often do, I recommend looking at Hero Quest for how to handle magic skills. There are actually several models for dealing with magic, but all use the same system. So it's elegant, and adding spells (or any kind of magic Ability) is simple. Really, very worth a look if you can get a copy.

Mike

[ADGBoss]

One thing you may also consider is having the base skills and then allowing players to mix n match to create affects.  The skill test could be based on the lowest skill level.

For example: a % based Skill System

A Person knows Fire 35% Distance 47% and Attack 39%

So the character wants to do a distance fire attack: he or she would need to roll under 35% to succeed because thats the "weakest" or lowest Skill. Come to think of it, for a more complex system you might require that for everything.

In any case I will aslo echo what Mike said but about Hero Wars not HQ because I have not seen it yet (Off topic: is it out yet Mike? I better go check issaries website...)

Sean

[c_stone_bush]

The idea of magical abilities as skills is one that I like very much. Like ADGBoss said, this would allow players to combine a number of magic "skills" to create a desired effect. This way you wouldn't have to come up with an exhaustive spell list (like in AD&D) that the players have to choose from, but would allow players to design their own spells. Also like you said you wouldn't have to define magical schools strictly by what spells a student of that school can learn. You could simply write down some fluff about the aims, means, and beliefs of the different schools and let the players decide what spells fit into the teaching of the school.

[M. J. Young]

As you said, spells are skills within the application of magic. Schools then group several related spells or skills. But as my system is skill based, I thought it would be good idea to separate schools into smaller groups.

So if I'm getting this correctly--

You see a lot of games in which someone will specialize in, perhaps, illusion, or necromancy, or divination, and so will have a lot of different skills in those rather broad areas; you want to create a system which is narrower in the areas, such that someone would specialize in thunder, and have a very few abilities connected to thunder.

My experience must be on the opposite end. I see a lot of games in which player characters get a lot of very specific skills which can come from any area, but which are themselves very narrowly defined and individually mastered and used. To my mind, your "call thunder" concept is extremely broad, like a school, rather than like a skill. I'm not sure what games you're seeing that give you the impression that your idea narrows the idea of skills; it seems to me to broaden the idea of skills by creating skill packages which are combinations of skills in smaller collections than schools.

It's an interesting idea. I'm inclined to think that it gives you a significant problem, though. You could in theory create a system in which every possible skill was covered; to create a system in which every possible combination of skills was covered would strike me as extremely difficult. I'm not against limited systems in magic in particular, but I think a lot of players are looking for games in which you can invent your own magic and fit it into play.

How would you implement these skill packages--or am I still missing the point?

--M. J. Young

[aghori]

Thanks for the feedback, suggerences and comments.

With your aid I have assembled the following solution:

Skills gather a group of possible maneuvers based on a power or sphere like thunder, fire, and the like. Maneuvers are implementations of maneuver templates; these are the very base of the magic system.

A maneuver template describes the form and mechanics for a given archetypic magic maneuver, but abstracts itself from variables such as method , damage type,  duration, etc.  At the maneuver implementation  the blanks should be filled.

Some maneuver templates with examples of its implementations:

Misile: magic misiles, fireballs, electricity bolts.
Enchant Weapon: flaming blade, empowered arrow, exploding spear.
Enchant Person: curse, love charm, cause sickness, wrap.
Get Information: oracle, detect danger, ESP.
Enchant Zone: rock rain, terrain illusion .
Boost Self: invisibility, supernatural strenght .

Then two maneuvers of the same template could be combined as described by ADGBoss. To mix maneuvers of a different template could be more tricky but with a wise choice of templates it may not be neccesary.