the Riddle of d20 conversion

[Loki]

Hey all,

I've been running a low-magic game for about a year now using d20, and my group has become increasingly unhappy with the built-in powergaming of the system--so we're moving to the Riddle of Steel.

We're using the Quickstart rules, which are really blowing everyone away. The combat has everyone excited and afraid (as it should be!) and the magic system has me (the DM.. ahem, Seneschal) really, really excited. I think the thread on these boards discussing creating magic items using SA is so damn brilliant that I was speechless.

So, now that I've buttered everyone up... how the heck should we go about converting our d20 characters? I've told the players that the only thing they really need to bring to the next session is a really good conception of their character that we will define in RoS terms (because I think the SA is the most important part of the system). However, two of my players are somewhat into stats, numbers, tactical advantages, etc and I'd like them to feel like even if their characters are no longer the d20 superheroes they once were, they still have some of their skills and advantages.

These characters are all basically semi-barbaric aristocracy... their people's major advantage is their horses and riding ability (they are kinda like the Rohirrim from LoTR... spears, mail and horses). So they have horsemanship. They also have highly developed sense of honor and their place in society. They've cut down at least one serf that acted uppity, and decimated (literally) a village that murdered its lord during an enemy invasion.

One of the characters has fey ancestry, which has manifested itself as a bonus to woodcraft type skills, good eyesight and a sensitivity to magic areas. Another character has learned three spells: a minor healing magic, a ritual that summons a spirit to defend him, and a spell that blinds his opponents (I'm using a CoC ability damage system for spells, with no 'magic-user' classes).

Converting their physical abilities I'm not too worried about. Their combat abilities will probably need some playtesting before we get our heads around the system, but any advice as to how to approximate the ability of some teenaged aristocrats (ie plenty of martial training) who have been fighting in a war for about the last 6 months of game time (about 20 combats).

The fey abilities and spells... I'm stumped there. The character who knows a few spells is one of the best fighters in the group--a kind of mystical warrior... so I'm not sure how to balance sorcerous ability with his established physical prowess (though he's more fast than tough). The fey character most recently (in a fit of DM madness) was able to produce flame (::sigh:: somehow high-magic keeps sneaking into my d20 games).

Any advice for a newb?

[Caz]

Personally I usually don't do strict formula conversions, I doubt there is one for this, but it usually works out pretty well to just convert ideas, and eyeball it once you have a knowledge of what the average guys stats are in each game, it's pretty easy.  As for tros magic you'll probably just have to change the outlook and say you didn't hehe

[kenjib]

I'd say let each play handle the conversion on their own based on how they see their own character concept.  If the standard TROS character creation doesn't create characters with enough oompf to capture your players' seasoned characters, give them some free insight points to start with.  That might be a good idea anyway so they don't feel like they are starting over from the beginning despite all the adventures they have had.

[Ville]

I wouldn't worry too much about game balance with the "semi" fey since that is not what TROS is about anyway. Just don't let him overshadow the other characters.

I think that the best way to convert characters would be to discuss about the spiritual attributes of the characters (since as you said they have some history, codes of honour etc.) Who knows, maybe those D20 fanatcis will suddenly like that their previous actions actually helped to make their characters what they are now.

But please do tell them about the hit points thing;-)

[Mike Holmes]

Yeah, magic I see as the sticking point. That is, modeling the sort of magic that you see in D&D is going to be difficult to impossible using the TROS system. They're just philosophically incompatible.

So you have three choices, it seems to me.
A. Abandon the character concepts in terms of magic, and just go with TROS magic. IOW, substantially rewrite these characters.
B. Port over D&D's magic system to TROS.
C. Or, make up your own magic system and use that.

The first is by far the easiest, but may be dissatisfactory, depending. The second we could have for you in short order, I think (though I'm sure some will find the idea distasteful, there are those who like a challenge here). The latter would be the most creative, but the most difficult.

Which do you think?

Mike

[Loki]

It's not as dire as it sounds... I didn't go into it in detail for brevity's sake, but I'm not using the standard d20/3e magic system. I'm using the d20 Call of Cthulhu magic system, where spells are one-shot, unique effects that do ability damage (and sanity loss in CoC).

In that sense, I think the age effects of RoS magic works pretty well. I was more wondering how one would implement powers that I've given the semi-fey character. Things like: low-light vision, better vision/hearing, sensitivity to 'magic' areas, ability to see certain invisible creatures (purely a plot device), pass without trace in the woods, minor bonuses when in the woods (terrain bonus) and lastly... shamefully... I let him produce flame in his palm, and even immolate himself (without burning) during a moment of desperate passion (he was defending his unconscious/dying lover).

Cheers and thanks for your responses.

[Brian Leybourne]

Sounds to me like your classic "not a sorcerer but not of common blood either" situation. Make him buy a higher race priority (sounds like a D to C to me from what you say) and then just give him those abilities. There's nothing there that's terribly overpowering really, and the other players (probably) wont complain because they only had to use an F for race, so they ended up stronger in other areas.

Brian.

[Loki]

Hmm. I'm using the QS rules, so there are no races, but maybe I can figure something out. I'll keep reading the rules and see where there's some give-and-take in character creation.

[Lance D. Allen]

Ah. First recommendation then: Buy the book. The QS isn't a Quickstart... It's a whole other, and lesser, game. The basic rules are the same, but so many of the details differ that it's not the same game. It's only a hint of the Riddle, as the name suggests, not even a good bite.

Buy the book. If you want to seriously play the game, invest the money and the time. The QS is meant to give you an idea about the game, not substitute for it.

[kenjib]

Hehe - one thing though, after seeing how Lejendary Adventures works I actually almost like the more simple skill system in the quickstart better.

[Stephen]

First recommendation then: Buy the book. The QS isn't a Quickstart... It's a whole other, and lesser, game. The basic rules are the same, but so many of the details differ that it's not the same game. It's only a hint of the Riddle, as the name suggests, not even a good bite.  The QS is meant to give you an idea about the game, not substitute for it.

While I'll politely disagree with the "lesser" tag, Wolfen is right -- trying to convert d20 to TROS-QS may cause your PCs to lose some of the details they want to keep.  The QS was written as a "training wheels" version of the primary game, something for people to try out the basic rule structure and game style.

One thing that can work, though, is that if you wish to keep the QS skill rules and use the rest of the book as is, you can -- the TROS system is quite modular in that respect.  (But make sure you slow down the progression rate -- ask for 10 or 15 successful Vocation checks rather than just 3 -- or your Vocations will improve ridiculously fast.)

[kenjib]

Yeah, that's a good idea regarding skills.  I'm going to splinter off a new thread for this idea though.