Bullpen: Not Just Another Supers RPG

[Jay Turner]

That's pretty much the idea. Sorta like 7th Sea's treatment of Flaws (or whatever they call them in that system). The question is, should other players be allowed to spend a player's black stones.

I'm still not decided on reconciling this mechanic with that of Caliber. I wonder if the game would work just based on the Appeal sack?

[LordSmerf]

My impression is that the game can be played based solely on Appeal.  However, if you do so the focus will be pulled away from the Powers.  Powers will be unimportant, more like window dressing than like the integral and important facets of a character that they are.

You might consider something simpler than cards for resolution.  Something like Caliber + 1dX (i'm thinking a d6), or maybe 1dX with X determined by Caliber.  This would make powers important and illustrate that having a higher Caliber directly represents greater ability to change the world.

Thomas

[Jay Turner]

I think I like the card mechanic enough to keep it, with perhaps some tweaks here and there. I think you're right, though, about the effect of losing Caliber altogether. One half of the equation in Bullpen is who your character is, and I definitely don't want that part to seem less important than it is.

When I get a moment I'll put up an example of play the way I imagine the mechanics to work.

[apeiron]

@ There is nothing preventing you from using d20, QD, Xc, sack of stones or box of rocks for Bullpen.  Those are all mechanics, bullpen is a system.  Develop a mechanic that you think works best for your vision of Bullpen. And call it the Bullpen Mechanic or Zd (z for zobie), or what have you.  Publish it as a *seperate entity*.  Include that entity in Bullpen.  Include drivers (read adaptation sections (i'm techie)) for other mechanics.  So when John Doe gets Bullpen, he can use Zd, or he can read the bit on Xc and use it.  Not only that but he can use Zd for his own games.  This is my whole open-source/free ware model for RPG design... applying the hacker rules to gaming.

@ Don't fret over which mechanic or randomizer is best, they all have virtues.  Use them all/use none of them.  You can discuss appeal in principle and players will get it without assigning numbers.

@ The next step might be a Setting Layer, given just as an example.  Bring Firbug to life and set him loose in Jaysburg.

[Jay Turner]

I'm a big believer in marrying a system to a game. I have settings without systems that would be great with a more modular mechanic, but in the case of Bullpen I want a system that is specifically designed to play the way I think Bullpen ought to play.

That said, I like the card mechanic I have, and I'm actually using the dice version in another game, so I see what you're saying.

[apeiron]

I'm a big believer in marrying a system to a game. I have settings without systems that would be great with a more modular mechanic, but in the case of Bullpen I want a system that is specifically designed to play the way I think Bullpen ought to play.

That said, I like the card mechanic I have, and I'm actually using the dice version in another game, so I see what you're saying.

@  Right, so offer a default Mechanic and System for the Bullpen Game.  And develop your heart out, then perhaps at the end say "by the way you can use this Die Mechanic too by making these adjustments".  But also write a version of your Bullpen Mechanic and System so it can be used elsewhere.  If that is the sort of thing you are into.  

@ Consider how much time we developer wannabees spend cranking out new mechanics and systems, imagine if instead you just pick one the matches your game best and spend more time worrying about making the setting kick ass.  That is one of my goals, an arsenal of mechanics, systems and plug-ins.

[Jay Turner]

Well, I want to make Bullpen a cohesive and fun game in and of itself, and that's the primary goal. Anything involving the system being useful on its own after that point would be gravy.

Any opinions on the system and how it might tie in with the premise of the game?

[apeiron]

@ Howabout some functions that are team specific?  So far the emphasis has been on individuals.  Many comics are about teams, so perhaps the team as a whole has fans/haters and so on.  Essentially a 'meta-character' that represents the whole.  Sometimes the Avengers have a bed streak, or they suddenly work together in some amazing way.  So the X-men operate on a smaller/weirder scale (caliber) than say the Avengers.  The punisher works on a very small scale.  Some comic readers are pro X-title, others are more for comics about individuals, or altered human teams.  Perhaps include some rules on dealing with team and label competition.  Also some intrateam rivalry stuff.  Wolvie and Cyclops were often on the verge of killing each other.  Lets come up with some ways of expressing that competition.  Don't forget feud and grudges (nemeses), like Wolv and Sabertooth.  Oh, and cross overs!  

@ All of these relationships are critical to the appeal of a character and a team.  If only one of the X-men was liked, the X men comic would be cancelled and the one liked character might go solo or join another team.

@ Then there are meta character powers. like the Fast Ball Special, where Colossus throws wolverine.  Things that only happen within the team.

[Jay Turner]

I am working on having a book-wide Appeal score, but for team Caliber I think I'll just leave it separate for each character for the time being. I mean, after all, the most important team in the game is the one the players are working on.

Crossovers, rivalries, etc. are all publicity stunts and can be handled as such. That might be something a player can spend Appeal stones on (say, spend five stones and get the publisher's star to appear in the next issue). Those things have been in the game for as long as I've been tossing the idea around, and so things from splash pages to dramatic shading to extreme close-ups will be around in some form. Honestly, I'd been trying to find a way to work them, and the newest Appeal mechanic (the stones) actually makes them more possible.

[apeiron]

@ What about having words on the stones? Perhaps they wouldn't be stones any more, but bear with me here.  So Xaos of the Y-Guys (my character) is about to apply the "smack down" upon some goon.  i reach in the sack and grab a white stone that says "Cool Shading" or "Rightous(sp?) Fury".  Or maybe Xaos wanted to change his fan base and drew "Lame Costume".

@ This would work best with playing cards.  You have a table that crosses "type of action" with "Card".  So for an attack drawing the Ace of Clubs, the Attack modifier is "Pa Pow!".  Not only do i get a success, i get to yell "PA POW!!!" when i play it and pose menacingly, the hapless goon's jaw is shattered.  If i had drawn the 5 of Hearts it might have been "Whiff!" meaning i punch his shadow's jaw.  However, for a publicity stunt, the 5 of Hearts means "+]-[3 B3$+", meaning hackers love it.  If each suit governed one aspect and the others were lesser results of that aspect, a card might be great for this, but lousy for that, and ok for the other thing.  If the text on the card is not exactly applicable, the player and GM agree to something appropriate.  With these Action cards, the players should be encouraged to LARP some of their moves.  Fight scenes would be a hoot, everyone posing and making sound effects.  The GM might reward this behavior.

@ Here's the kicker: Make the game in PDF format a free download.  Design cards with the terms and cool drawing.  Copyright the cards and sell them.  This is how i plan on releasing my games, pleasing my 90's idealism and 80's greed.  Bobbie could use his dad's poker deck and refer to a table, thus being cheap.  Steve, who has a job, wants the pretty cards and buys them.

@ Card Trading: perhaps the team plays with one deck between them, and they can donate cards to a common pool or trade them.  Xaos is a fighter type so i need club cards, your character is looking to change his image and thus needs hearts... lets make a deal.  Perhaps combinations of cards do extra spiffy things.  This might create an economy among the players.  But something along these lines might facilitate a "team karma pool".

@ The cards might simply augment another mechanic such as dice or stones.  So i roll and then up the result by playing one of my cards.

@ Combos: Not just a tasty snack, but a way of taking emphasis off of the value on the card.  If i am making a power stunt (Xaos want to zap someone), and i play two Spades, i get a better result, based on the number of cards rather than the value.  Or maybe i play one Spade and one Heart, so i zap the goon really well, and please my audience as well.

[Jay Turner]

An interesting idea, but a bit more random than I'd like in this game. I'd like for the players to decide on their stunts and Appeal actions based on what they think would be best for their character.

[Phillip]

An interesting idea, but a bit more random than I'd like in this game. I'd like for the players to decide on their stunts and Appeal actions based on what they think would be best for their character.

Jay, I think apeiron is trying to suggest what I was doing in an earlier post about writing on cards.  The cards don't DICTATE what the players have to do, they just give a bonus if the player's action matches that card's printed action / plot device / whatever.  It's basically just to give flavor, and it helps when you are totally out of ideas (my limit tends to be about 3 hours in an RPG before I start to run out).  In a game of Champions one upon a time, my brother made some sound-effects cut out of index cards (shaped like the jagged-edged sound effect splashes from the old Batman TV show).  When we did a particularly cool action, he would pick one and display it.  It really was only for show, but it did add to the fun (for ideas of specific soundfx, think old Batman TV show, or 70's Avengers / Justice League comic books).

I also like his idea of assigning suits, I have a supers game (using dice) that uses 4 different Styles which could easily be assigned to suits.  I tried to choose names that reflect the different types of comic book actions and that sound Stan Lee-ish.  
Mayhem - Fighting, brute force, intimidation
Pizzazz - Agility, performance, style
Aura - Magic, spiritual matters, affect on the world as a whole
Wits - Science, perception, figuring things out

I know that these ideas probably don't fit in with what you are trying to do, and we are throwing them at you in double-handfuls, but you should realize that we all have very high regard for this project, because you are attempting to simulate supers from a comic perspective, something that I have never seen done (at least not this well).  That is the heart of what makes Bullpen great.

[Jay Turner]

Actually, I hope I'm not coming across as ungrateful for your input, guys. I really appreciate the advice and feedback I'm getting for Bullpen. :) I guess what I'm doing is the equivalent of saying, "Okay, shoot every arrow you've got at me, and I'll deflect the ones I don't want to hit me." ;)

I think the idea is at a stage where it really needs to be playtested to go much further, and I don't have playtesters handy these days, so I'm trying to intellectually work out how it'd all work. Not the best way to do stuff, but it's as good as I can get at the moment.

I do want a comic-book feel, but I want it to feel like you're the one making the plot and the characters. I want creative power for their characters' actions to lie completely with the players and the Editor as much as possible.

I think the comic-book feel can come through in the narration (obviously), but also in gameflow and the actual design of the book/PDF. I think it could use something to spice it up a bit when the system comes into play.

[apeiron]

@ Philip's interpretation is spot on, i think the of it as flavor text.  A suggestion in bright colors and big letters.

@ i think we all understand that not all ideas are going to match your vision for BP.  i certainly don't take it personally.  If you hear something you like, use it, if not maybe we'll use it in our own projects.  i'm thinking of making a comic book battle system based on the cards i mentioned above.  It's all good.  Your ideas are sparking ideas in others, maybe they will work for you, maybe they will work for someone else.  To me that is a win/win scenario.

@ Did you check out Wurthering Heights yet, Jay?