Technique and setting

[Paganini]

It's a given that Setting is fundamental. The existence of Characters depends on Setting; so does Situation, since Situation is an interraction between Character and Setting.

The core of Narrativist play depends on Situation; specifically on Situations that present theme-producing decision points. Now, the important thing about these decision points is that the *players* are doing the deciding. The players don't necessarily have to be creating the decision points in the first place. Since Setting is directly responsible for both Character and Sistuation, it seems like it should be possible to create a "theme-heavy" Setting. Theme production would be easy, or even inescapable, just by playing in such a setting. This seems particularly well-suited to Vanilla Narrativism. (In fact, Theme production via Setting is the whole point of Vanilla Narrativism, as I understand it.)

So, the point of this post is twofold. First, what existing settings already fit this bill? What elements, specifically, do you find particularly condusive to theme-generating Situations?

Second, I bet there are a lot of setting elements that might encourage theme-producing situations that haven't been specifically identified or used as such. They may have been imbedded into other settings to add a little "kewelness" jolt, or maybe they haven't been even been used in an RPG at all. Let's start a list of what Setting elements, and why they're particularly condusive to theme production.

[Bankuei]

Hi P,

One issue is that Setting does not dictate how play will go, in GNS terms.  At best Setting can make creating Situation, easier, or more obvious, but it cannot make Nar play "inescapable".  

For example, the various Whitewolf settings, minus metaplot, are filled with conflict, themes, and ripe for good Nar drama.  It just happens the rest of the texts then recommend Illusionist/Sim techniques that run counter to it occurring.

The point useful to Nar play is that conflict is occurring.  Conflict can be part of System, such as Dust Devils or Trollbabe, the Setting, such as HeroQuest, or simply part of Situation.  But the key point is how play goes down, and Setting alone doesn't determine that.

Chris
edited for clarity

[Valamir]

Well, I would think the default Forge answers would be HeroQuest and Alyria.

If one wishes to go farther afield Pendragon is a theme rich setting that (despite often being played sim to the hilt) offers enormous potential through its virtues, vices, and passion mechanic.  There are alot of built in choices in Stafford's version of Arthurian Britain.

Old vs New
Fierce Warrior vs Courtly Poet
Love vs Amour
The rights of independent lords vs subjugation to a central king
Privileges of nobility vs the obligations of nobility
Family vs Liege
Ethnic Group vs Ethnic Group
Rights of the peasants vs Peasants have rights?
Pagan vs Christian
Chivalry vs Expediency
Love vs Loyalty
Nobility of spirit and deed vs Nobility of position and wealth

[coxcomb]

I've been thinking a lot about this sort of thing in my own development. The tack that I am taking is to create pockets of setting that lend themselves to various themes.

The potential problem with this seems to be skirting too close to dictating themes. But if done properly nations, geographic locations, political factions, etc. can all be seeded with opportunities for the big questions without force.

[Paganini]

Chris,

One issue is that Setting does not dictate how play will go, in GNS terms.  At best Setting can make creating Situation, easier, or more obvious, but it cannot make Nar play "inescapable".

This is true, as far as it goes, in that you can't make the players care about theme - they have to want to. However, I'm not talking about Narrativist play per se (although, I suggest that such a setting would be extremely well-suited to Nar play). I'm talking specifically about the production of theme. Remember, any of the Creative Agendas can produce theme... the presence of theme is not proof of Narrativism.

Given that Situation and Character both depend on Setting, it should be possible to design a Setting so that theme production is guaranteed.

Jay's on exactly the same page as I am, I think. I want to know: speific techniques for imbeding theme into setting. Ron touches on it in Trollbabe, where he talks about setting up NPCs with conflicting agendas for the PCs to encounter.

[Valamir]

I think all you need is to imbed choices into the setting.  Two sides whose position is generally held (at least by their adherents) as being mutually exclusive.  And both of them are right.  Or at least each is as right as the other.

After that you make choosing between them unavoidable.  Trollbabe is quite explicit about this, saying that whether the Trollbabe wants to be involved in the conflict between men and Trolls, each side will assume her to be regardless.

[M. J. Young]

I think Ralph's probably nailed it. I've got a number of Multiverser settings that invite theme creation; players don't always address theme, but it's right there.
One in which Neanderthals and Cro Magnons are fighting over a limited amount of territory which they are outgrowing; this leads to a lot of possibilities.
One in which elves, dwarfs, and humans are destroying orc homelands and enslaving the orcs in the name of civilizing them; this one's very in-your-face.
One in which the vast majority of the population believes that the strong should thrive and the weak should die, and that their moral obligation is to prove themselves to be among the strong.

Put serious questions into the setting, and they will spring to life in situations.

--M. J. Young

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

Nathan, your claim that Character and Situation both arise from Setting - and that you must start with Setting - is strange to me.

The way I see it, Situation requires both Character and Setting. Situation is the king; it's the gorilla; it's the Thing You Must Have or you cannot play. Need Situation? Get some character and setting, in whatever mix & match seems to work for this particular time.

Hence very sketchy, even nearly-meaningless settings are possible, given strong enough characters. Those settings will blossom soon in play. Or vice versa - practically cardboard cutouts for characters, in a setting which reeks of conflict, and the same will happen.

So I am saying, I disagree with your basic observation (Setting first) and consider that concept merely a Technique, and a perfectly good one, that you have fixated upon as "the way it is."

Best,
Ron

[Paganini]

Hey Ron,

Actually, I was just restating something that you said yourself in one of the essays. Situation is produced by the interraction of Character and Setting. Without Setting for the Characters to interract *with,* the Big Gorilla isn't even a Tribble.

The point is, by constructing the Setting a certain way, we should be able to influence Situation quite a bit.

We know that Situation will produce theme in some circumstances, regardless of whether or not the players are prioritizing the Narrativist Creative Agenda. We know this because a Transcript can be a Story, regardless of how it was produced.

So, what particular Setting elements encourage Situations that produce Theme? I repeat, this seems ideal for Vanilla Narrativism, since Setting makes it easy to produce Theme -  you don't need any help from System.