Sci fi RPGS ... must they be colorless?

[LizardLips]

I've been tinkering with a sci fi RPG for a few months and I'm a bit discouraged. I wanted to play a fast paced space pirates/cowboys games, with tough hombres plying the intersteller lanes in junker starships, their trusty sandalwood blasters hung low by their side, on the run from the law and on the look of for soft belly freighters heavy with plunder.

I looked at GURPS and Traveller (mechanics too deep, crunchy and slow), and I'm sick of the d20 system. I thought about using a lighter rules system like The Pool or FUDGE, but I really dig all the techno-crunchery of spaceships and gear.

I cobbled together a system (light on character skills, heavier on ship and gear rules), but when I stepped back and looked at it, it just seemed so bland. I don't know if I'm trying to cover too many bases, but the skills I outlined are so generic to cover any possible character that they lack flavor. Here, let me show you. Its a simple roll a d10, add skill. Traits (such as "Strong", "Gunslinger" or "Daring") grant a bonus die, take the higher of the two rolls.

Combat    |    Physical    |    Discovery    |    Interaction  |    Technical
Fighting         |    Athletics    |    Find    |    Cunning    |    Operate
Shooting        |    Grace    |    Know    |    Persuade    |    Create
Guts        |    Endurance    |    Notice    |    Command    |    Fix

(That table is just not going to look right. Sorry). Pretty lame skills. I wanted a nice, tight skill list but I've found that I've had to keep the skills so generic that they lack "oomph".

Any suggestions on a way to add some of the frontier flavah my game is lacking?

[anonymouse]

re: format: know and love the code tags! ;) Right there underneath the Subject box..

Your issue isn't setting Color, but focus.

If you want players to be able to play any kind of character in the setting using this system, then it will necessarily lean to the generic a bit (unless you just get obsessive over the difference between Arrakis Cuisine and Homeworld Cuisine and need 6 different Cook skills to cover them).

If you want players specifically to be some archetype and have a specific sort of game (space cowboys or whatever) then write mechanics to that end; space cowboys probably wouldn't need an "Operate" technical skill, for instance. That's just something they do.

Also think about what you want the skill rolls to represent. Are they success/failure? Do you want a lot of instances where the characters have to try and Operate a computer where failure can be a positive gaming outcome? By this I mean if they botch the roll, are they just going to try again until they succeed (in which case, having a rolling-skill for it is stupid), or what.

[Mark Johnson]

Have you considered player created freeform skills?  Instead of "fighting" allow players to take "Arcturan Aikido" or "Learned To Brawl Among the Gutterpunks of Stakla 3."  Give a bonus to colorful skill creation.  Even giving a single extra point for each of the colorful skills at GMs discretion should allow tons of appropriate color.  Also allow the player to tinker with the character until all their skills have GM approved bonus points.

Throw in an a trait style extra bonus dice (take highest) if the description of the action really captures the flavor of the skill (Arcturan Aikido might be established through play to be graceful, while Gutterpunk Brawling could be quite bloody).  If a player has all cylinders firing (a strong skill, an appropriate trait and a good, appropriate description on a well colored skill), a character could be truly heroic.

Regarding the bonus die, you might consider having "matches" add to each other.  If a player rolls a "7" and a "9", the result is 9.  If the player rolls two "6"es , the result is 12.  

Just a few ideas,
Mark

[xiombarg]

Quick aside: Dude, haven't you looked at Orbit? The Color is exactly what you describe.

[Valamir]

I was just going to mention Orbit...there's a review of it up at RPG.net right now.

[M. J. Young]

Multiverser goes the route of providing generic skill descriptions/categories and encouraging individualized design/definition; particularly this is true as a character gets better at something, such that someone can be an amateur cook, but if he hits professional he'll be a professional short order cook or professional baker, and at expert he's looking at individualized skills in his pastries versus his pies.

Anyway, the idea of providing generalized skills with the caveat that they're to be customized to the individual could go a long way to solving your problem.

--M. J. Young

[LizardLips]

Ok... went back and tinkered some more. I'd seen Orbit. Its a little TOO freeform for me. And well... my system may not be perfect, but it will be mine. That's part of my enjoyment here.

I'm thinking of using slightly different skill sets for different character types. I want to avoid classes, but I think I might use templates to suggest various niches available to players. I've designed the skills below for Laborers with templates including Gunslingers, Bush Pilots, Rocket Jockeys, and Yardies (grease monkey types found in shipyards or junkyards). Anyway, please take a look at this. I'll have some questions at the end.

CHARACTERS
   Players take the role of laborers, spacers and pirates on the rough and tumble colonial frontier. These tough hombres drink hard and live fast, plying the interstellar lanes in junker starships, their trusty sandalwood blasters hung low by their side, on the run from the law and on the look of for soft belly freighters heavy with plunder.

Characters are made up of skills, traits, chips and training paths. Skills are specific ratings of a character's abilities. Traits are a broad list of freeform descriptions detailing a character's strengths and weaknesses, affiliations, or possessions. Chips are special tokens used during action scenes that can also be tailored to represent a particular character's aptitude. Chips are also used to power the use of traits. Training paths are special powers that are achieved by attaining a series of consecutive steps.    

SKILLS
   Skills are rated from 0 to 5. When you want to do something, the GM will tell you which of your skills is appropriate. Roll a ten-sided die and add your skill number. Successful use of a skill depends on the difficulty of the task. Average tasks require a roll of 5 or higher. Difficult tasks could require a roll of 8 or higher, while very difficult tasks could require a roll of 12 or more. Skills include:

Brawling – Punchin', kickin', and layin' the hurt on some no good starport gutter bags.  
Guns – Takin' aim with yer shootin' irons, laser rifle or any other weapon you sight down the length of a barrel.
Athletics – Runnin. jumpin', throwin', and all sorts of other physical feats. But not wrasslin'. That goes under Brawlin'
Drive – Takin' the wheel of any sort of ground vehicle
Pilot – Flyin' airships, fighters and crop dusters and any other nimble craft that leaves the surface of a planet.  
Helm – Operatin' big ships, freighters and cruisers, usually with a bunch of other blokes under yer command.
Sneak – Getting' around without bein' noticed.
Notice – Findin' stuff, avoiding getting' ambushed, lookin' for clues.
Fix – Repairin' all manner of mechanical devices.
Computer –  Fixin' digital devices or usin' em where failure would be a mess o' trouble.
Remember – Most folks on the frontier aint educated. The best they can do is try and remember facts picked up from primary school, TV or the undersides of bottle caps
Yell – Makin' folks do whatcha want by yellin at 'em.
Charm – Makin' folks do whatcha want by butterin' em up or kissin' their rears.
Trick – Makin' folks do what you want by out thinkin' em
Nance – All sorts of fruity useless skills like cookin' and art appreciation'.  


TRAITS
Traits are descriptive words you will use to define your character. Write down any sort of trait that describes your character, but be sure to run it by your GM. Acceptable traits usually fall under one of the following categories:

Descriptive – Strong, brave, witty, clever, educated, quick, and beautiful are all examples of descriptive traits.

Factions – A particular homeland, organization, or branch of the military is useful, but typically only when dealing with other members of the same faction.

Professions – Job descriptions can usually be applied to any skill. Because professions are pretty narrow though, they're generally only helpful in specific situations. It would be fairly difficult to apply your Lawyer trait while exploring ancient ruins.

Possessions – You may want to include an item so important to your character concept that you cannot conceive of your character without it. A definitive starship, a special weapon like a bullwhip, or an heirloom may be included as a Trait, but only with prior GM approval. Such Trait possessions shouldn't be taken from the character or destroyed permanently by the GM.

During action scenes traits can be used to either gain an advantage or to reroll a botched skill roll.

Advantage - Before making a roll in which you can describe how one of your traits grants you an advantage, declare how much effort you are putting into it (by risking a number of chips from your stack). Make the skill roll, adding one bonus die for each chip gambled, and keep the highest die rolled. If the highest die plus skill is a failure, all of the chips gambled are lost.

Reroll - To gain a reroll, describe how one of your traits grants your character an advantage and spend a chip. Make the roll over again from the beginning (even risking chips to gain bonus dice as described under Advantage).

CHIPS
Chips are spent to make rerolls or gain an advantage with a character's traits. Chips are also used to avoid damage or receive extra actions. Chips come in 4 different colors, each representing a type of action: Red for combat, green for movement, blue for technical, and white for social. During action scenes, chips are stacked in front of the player. When chips are spent or lost, they are taken from the top of the stack. During an action scene, the order of a player's chips may only be changed at the end of the player's turn.

Avoid Damage - When a character is hit, they are either Hurt, Wounded or Dying. A character can avoid damage by spending one chip per damage level (so one chip for Hurt, two chips for Wounded, and three chips for Dying).

React - Players may also spend chips at anytime during their turn to "react", gaining an action out of turn. The chips spent must come from the top of the stack, and the color of the chip determines the type of action that can be taken.

- - - -

This is already getting long so I'll leave out the rules on combat and vehicles. I"ve also cut out Training Paths for now... essentially their stripped down Feats from d20. I'm thinking they'll run off of the chips (allowing you to swithc their order, or to spend specific colors for different effects).

My questions - The chip resource. Will it prove too cumbersome? Do the chips do too many things? I'm thinking of making chips determine initiative... he with the most chips goes first. Will that player dominate the others? (the guy with the most chips goes first, and then spends them throughtout the round to get more actions)

I've got specific skills, player defined traits and a nebulous chip resource (I'm not even sure what it represents. Experience? Drive? Vigor?)... am I mixing too many different elemnts together that they won't gel?

My initial thought is that beginning characters will have two or three chips, and max out at about 5. Is this too few? Mooks won't have chips, unless they band together, in which case the squad or gang will have a stack they can use for group actions. Will this prove to require too much bookeeping in play?

Finally, are there any skills that I missed that seem obvious to you? I'm trying to keep the skill list short and generic generic so I don't have to spend ages in prep time describing each and every minor skill the bad guys have. Thanks for takin gthe time to look at this. I look forward to your critiques. :)

[Andrew Martin]

Skills include:

Brawling – Punchin', kickin', and layin' the hurt on some no good starport gutter bags.  
Guns – Takin' aim with yer shootin' irons, laser rifle or any other weapon you sight down the length of a barrel.
Athletics – Runnin. jumpin', throwin', and all sorts of other physical feats. But not wrasslin'. That goes under Brawlin'
Drive – Takin' the wheel of any sort of ground vehicle
Pilot – Flyin' airships, fighters and crop dusters and any other nimble craft that leaves the surface of a planet.  
Helm – Operatin' big ships, freighters and cruisers, usually with a bunch of other blokes under yer command.
Sneak – Getting' around without bein' noticed.
Notice – Findin' stuff, avoiding getting' ambushed, lookin' for clues.
Fix – Repairin' all manner of mechanical devices.
Computer –  Fixin' digital devices or usin' em where failure would be a mess o' trouble.
Remember – Most folks on the frontier aint educated. The best they can do is try and remember facts picked up from primary school, TV or the undersides of bottle caps
Yell – Makin' folks do whatcha want by yellin at 'em.
Charm – Makin' folks do whatcha want by butterin' em up or kissin' their rears.
Trick – Makin' folks do what you want by out thinkin' em
Nance – All sorts of fruity useless skills like cookin' and art appreciation'.  

Please, have a look at the Deadlands character sheet at:
http://www.peginc.com/Downloads/Deadlands/DLCS.pdf
and use their style of skill names. I believe that will help improve the western flavour of your space game.

[Ole]

SKILLS
   Skills are rated from 0 to 5. When you want to do something, the GM will tell you which of your skills is appropriate. Roll a ten-sided die and add your skill number. Successful use of a skill depends on the difficulty of the task. Average tasks require a roll of 5 or higher. Difficult tasks could require a roll of 8 or higher, while very difficult tasks could require a roll of 12 or more.

Just a little observation. With skills ranging from 0 to 5 I`m guessing the average for a skilled character will be about 3. With the average result of a d10 being 5.5, the random factor is much more important than skill. I`m not saying thats necessarily bad, but is that what you intended?

TRAITS

Advantage - Before making a roll in which you can describe how one of your traits grants you an advantage, declare how much effort you are putting into it (by risking a number of chips from your stack). Make the skill roll, adding one bonus die for each chip gambled, and keep the highest die rolled. If the highest die plus skill is a failure, all of the chips gambled are lost.

Reroll - To gain a reroll, describe how one of your traits grants your character an advantage and spend a chip. Make the roll over again from the beginning (even risking chips to gain bonus dice as described under Advantage).

Gaining an advantage, or possibly a reroll, from a trait is a good idea. Having to spend a chip to get it is counter-intuitive. You expect a "strong" character to get an advantage in a fight, not just get an option to excercise it.

My questions - The chip resource. Will it prove too cumbersome? Do the chips do too many things? I'm thinking of making chips determine initiative... he with the most chips goes first. Will that player dominate the others? (the guy with the most chips goes first, and then spends them throughtout the round to get more actions)

I think stacking chips and different colors will result in activity on part of the players that will only detach from the game. The stacking of the chips in action sequences will be red, green, blue, white, unless you plan something really out of the ordinary. How about making chips unicolor, drop the stacking, and allowing them to be spent on advantages/rerolls regardless of traits? I cant see that these limitations have any justification in the game world.

I've got specific skills, player defined traits and a nebulous chip resource (I'm not even sure what it represents. Experience? Drive? Vigor?)... am I mixing too many different elemnts together that they won't gel?

The skills and traits structure will gel perfectly if you use traits as you described them in your first post. You might wanna sub the d10 for one of its smaller brothers to slightly lower the random factor.
I think chips need a closer look.

My initial thought is that beginning characters will have two or three chips, and max out at about 5. Is this too few? Mooks won't have chips, unless they band together, in which case the squad or gang will have a stack they can use for group actions. Will this prove to require too much bookeeping in play?

Too much bookeeping? No.
Its difficult to say whats an appropriate number of chips, it depends on alot of factors. Level of opposition and playing style springs to mind.

Finally, are there any skills that I missed that seem obvious to you? I'm trying to keep the skill list short and generic generic so I don't have to spend ages in prep time describing each and every minor skill the bad guys have. Thanks for takin gthe time to look at this. I look forward to your critiques. :)

I`m not saying its obvious, but perhaps a skill for using spacesuits? How about some kind of leadership skill?

I think the game looks really interesting, and it proves that SFRPGs doesnt have to be colorless. Your best bet in developing the design further is to play the game.

[Tim Gray]

SKILLS
   Skills are rated from 0 to 5. When you want to do something, the GM will tell you which of your skills is appropriate. Roll a ten-sided die and add your skill number. Successful use of a skill depends on the difficulty of the task. Average tasks require a roll of 5 or higher. Difficult tasks could require a roll of 8 or higher, while very difficult tasks could require a roll of 12 or more.

Just a little observation. With skills ranging from 0 to 5 I`m guessing the average for a skilled character will be about 3. With the average result of a d10 being 5.5, the random factor is much more important than skill. I`m not saying thats necessarily bad, but is that what you intended?

Yeah. To keep the gambling flavour use a d6 instead. Or even +d6-d6.

The different colours of chips looked impractical to me: people would have to have suitable tokens to hand, then remember what the colours mean and manage them in play.

I'd be inclined to go along with making the traits work automatically and maybe have a single chips type to spend for other things, though you don't strictly need it.

[Steve Samson]

I really like the flavor that you are adding by simply using a western-type tone in your skill descriptions, etc. It definitely helped me to pick up the type of game I'd be playing just by reading the skill list. I also appreciate the simplicity of the skill list. It seems that it would be accessable and appealing to non-gamers (which is a big crusade of mine, to make games that non-gamers would want to play).

Regarding the chip mechanic, I totally agree with the other respondents that it's way too cumbersome. I'd be okay with two different chip colors if they represented magnitude of influence instead of types of action. My reasoning is that people are used to thinking of colored chips as having progressively higher value (i.e., poker chips). For example, white chips to spend before a roll to receive a bonus or red chips to reroll a failed attempt. Remembering that white chips are "helper" chips and red chips are "danger" chips isn't hard. Hmm... I kind of like that idea. Where's my notebook? :)