Simulationist Creep

[Scourge108]

we know that certain games are Incoherent or Abashed, with major or minor technique conflicts that handicap attempts to play in a specific mode. we also know that historically, the flavor of game texts exhibited "Simulationist creep" in the '80s, and that additions to the rules of '70s game systems backed up this increasing interest in Simulationism.

I wanted to ask more about this statement.  I'm relatively new to the forge, and am still picking up all the current RP theories, but I have followed the industry since 1980 just by following what's in stock at the local game stores.  So I'm wondering what the simulationist creep of the 80's was.  What games led the way?  This might help give a better understanding of GNS, if we can see examples of games that use one style of creative agenda.

[james_west]

Hullo -

I'm a bad person to be addressing this, because I don't think I purchased a role-playing game between 1985 and 1995, but ...

It's actually omnipresent; these games are characterized by extremely detailed rules that purport to cover every possible situation (GURPS for example), and incredibly detailed settings. Name any of the major games from the eighties and early nineties, and it's heavily slanted towards simulationism.

- James

[John Kim]

It's actually omnipresent; these games are characterized by extremely detailed rules that purport to cover every possible situation (GURPS for example), and incredibly detailed settings. Name any of the major games from the eighties and early nineties, and it's heavily slanted towards simulationism.

Hmm.  There is certainly a trend of these.  In the early 80s you can see RoleMaster, Aftermath, HarnMaster, Powers and Perils, and so forth.  

On the other hand, the 80's also had Marvel Superheroes, Chill, and Paranoia as major game lines -- along with smaller games like Teenagers From Outer Space, Toon, Ghostbusters, Indiana Jones, and so forth.  I would say rather that the 80s had a divergence which made a broad spectrum.  The notable thing to me is that these rules-lite types arose in the 80s but died out in the 90s.  The last trace was TSR's "Amazing Engine" series which was a failure.  Games in the 90s seemed to standardize on more-or-less the level of complexity of "Vampire: The Masquerade".