Disgruntled Parents...

[Andrew Cooper]

Hi all,

I'm not sure if this is the proper forum to put this post but it is about my actual gaming group, so I'll just post it and trust the moderators to move it if need be.  Here's my current issue...

I have a new group of players.  By new, I mean both new to me and new to the hobby in general.  I have 6 players, of which, 1 is an old friend and old hand at RPGs, 1 is a new acquaintance but an old hand at RPGs and the remain 4 are friends that had never played before.  The age range here is from 17 to 30, with me being the oldest at 32.  Originally we started playing 3E D&D, simply because I'm a Gamist at heart (with admitted Narrativist tendancies) and it's the system I know best.  We played for several sessions and fun was had by all.

Then one of my 20 year old players dropped a bomb on me.  It seems his father threatened to kick him out of the house if he was caught playing D&D.  His parents don't have a problem with him role-playing in general, they just don't like the Fantasy genre with it's magic and spell-casting and such.  Admittedly, this is my absolute favorite genre.  Still, not wanting to lose him as a player, we all agreed to change to a Sci Fi game and I chose Alternity as the ruleset and the StarDrive setting.  The first go at the game didn't fare so well, so we scrapped the campaign after a couple of sessions, discussed what we didn't like about it and have agreed to try again with some changes to the style.

My problem is essentially this, I'm the only GM in the group and I'm not really into the Sci Fi genre.  I like Sci Fi movies.  I read Sci Fi books.  I just don't really care for Sci Fi role-playing.  Even if the new game goes well for the group as a whole, I'm not sure how well I'm going to enjoy it and deep down, I still want to play in a Fantasy setting.

My first impression is to simply say, "Look dude, you're 20 years old for Christ's sake.  Grow some nut hair." and go back to D&D or some other Fantasy system.  That seems a little harsh though and I genuinely like the kid even if he is a bit of a goober for having to ask his parent's permission to play at 20 years old.  Has anyone else ever run into a problem like this?  Anyone got any advice on how to handle it?  Is the problem more with me not wanting to play Sci Fi?  Hell, anyone with a easy fix to this will instantly be my new best friend.

[Christopher Weeks]

Wow.  What a bizarre situation.  I can't fathom letting my parent play that kind of role in my life.  Because of that, I wonder if he's not scamming you because he doesn't want to play the old game.

If it were me, I'd play the game I wanted to play and let him work out his problems.  If he wants to play, he'll play.  If not, he won't.  Hell, he could run the SF game if that's his thing.

On the other hand, you could play a game that is ostensibly a sci-fi game in which through some technological experience, you are transported to a world of monsters and magicians.  It could be a VR prison, a far away planet, an alternate dimension, or whatever.

What's up with his crazy parents anyway?  Maybe y'all should play KPfS a few times and see if they don't beg you to go back to D&D.

Chris

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Andrew, and welcome.

Easy fix? Yowch.

Interestingly enough, another fellow posted a thread recently with a similar concern, but I put a stop to the discussion as it involved minors and what appeared to be a potentially ugly custody-situation. Fortunately, your deal is a lot less problematic (for the Forge, that is), and it can be discussed openly.

My call, I'm afraid, is quite brutal, and I hope it doesn't constitute a perceived smack-down for you. Try to consider it "tough love" ...

1. This guy does indeed have a problem, but I can't imagine or understand how it would be your problem, or anyone else's in your group.

2. You've made it your problem, though, and now you're screwed.

Correct me if I'm wrong. You are GMing a game which you haven't enjoyed yet; there's not too much in the subject matter that is drawing you; the group as a whole doesn't seem to have much interest in it.

... and all because this fellow and his parents have apparently transferred any conflicts they have about Real Life onto the subject matter of your role-playing activity.

Bluntly, here goes. You, and the rest of you, are taking on too much responsibility for this guy's life and life-style. The very idea of having such an issue lie solely upon your choice of what to role-play is appalling - it's appalling on his parents' part, on his part, and - with respect - on your part as well.

Does that make sense? You and your group have already validated the inappropriate weight given to the issue by everyone else. Now you're in a messed-up situation, and I'm saying, "Yeah, you stuck your leg in that trap, dint'cha? Hurts, doesn't it?"

You can't solve others' miscommunications, games, neediness, and transferred issues. You can only concern yourself with enjoying your hobby, and people who can't participate without bringing in all sorts of inappropriate issues ... well, life is too short for that, in my view.

I cannot tell you what to do. Most importantly, no matter what I say, it cannot justify what you intend to do. But your post, it seems to me, called for a judgment on the parts of people here, and that would be mine. Pure judgment, in the most values-centric, "unjustified" sense of the word. My hope is that it provides, not a moral compass, but rather some food for thought.

Best,
Ron

[DevP]

I do hope, sincerely, he can snap out of it and live his own life. It might be that you need to administer some tough love to him, and have him deal with his parents, but conversely that's not always possible. (I've known a lot of craaaaazy parents in my time.) So, blessings be with you.

As far as the game goes: I'm surprised you jumped right from Fantasy to Sci-Fi. I'm wondering:
* what was it that made the Sci-Fi suck for you?
* what about Fantasy rocks for you?
* and therefore, what other play-styles or genres could work? (We could brainstorm some suggestions.)

You could definitely go for a low-fantasy without magic; you can achieve a lot of what is "mystical" with an assortment of mythic wuxia-level feats and grandeur etc. without resorting to Magic as such. He could (ugh) check with his parents to see if its okay.

[Valamir]

You know.  I'm not really seeing any of this as a "problem".

This entire situation boils down to choices.  

Sometimes we have to choose between two things that we want but we can't have both.  Sometimes the choice is trivial...we'd like both pie andcake for desert...but we can't have both.

Here, your friend has two things he wants.  He wants to stay on good terms with his parents and he wants to keep playing D&D.  Well, it may suck, but he can't have both.  He's going to have to choose one or the other...give up D&D or risk damaging his relationship with his folks.

You also have a choice.  You want to keep playing D&D and keep playing with your friend.  Well.  If your friend decides to give up D&D you can't have both either.  You're going to have to choose.  Keep playing D&D which your friend won't play.  Or keep playing with your friend and give up D&D.

It really is just that simple.  Pick one.

The choices suck...but there's a word for that...Life.

Your younger friends are going to have to get used it.

[Christopher Weeks]

oops.

[Christopher Weeks]

Here, your friend has two things he wants.  He wants to stay on good terms with his parents and he wants to keep playing D&D.  Well, it may suck, but he can't have both.

He could lie to them.  In fact, the more I think about it, that seems like what the parents are asking for.  What could they possibly expect aside from being mistrusted and lied to?  And really, how would they ever know what system of role-playing the boy is involved with?

Chris

[Andrew Cooper]

Thanks to everyone for the replies.  

After considering the current responses, I have to say I agree with you Ron.  I know this player pretty well and I know his parents and I like them despite their hangup with Fantasy RPGs.  That's probably why I opted to change games without fully considering what I was doing.  Stupid me and completely my fault since I brought the idea to the group and asked them to buy into it.  I should have just stuck with the original game and let him decide whether he wanted to participate or not.  Personally, I think it'd do him some good to get kicked out of his house and have to make it on his own but that's a whole other can of worms.

I'm going to change my question a bit now.  What suggestions would y'all have about resolving the situation now that it's here?  I'm partially inclined to just say, "Screw it.  We're going back to the other game."  However, several of the players went out and acquired Alternity material just for the purpose of playing and I hate to make that a waste for them.  Perhaps playing 4 or 5 sessions of Sci Fi and then a number of sessions of Fantasy?  Anyone had any success or failures with that set up?

Dev, I'm not sure why I don't care for Sci Fi role-playing.  I've done some Star Wars and Robotech as a player in the past and had reasonably good experiences.  However, it just doesn't grab my imagination like Fantasy does.

The kpfs sounds like a wonderful idea... heh.

BTW... Ron and whoever else, don't worry about sounding harsh.  I've got a really thick skin and am very hard to offend.  Besides, you don't know me from Adam so who cares if you piss me off, right? :-)

[Christopher Weeks]

No matter how much they spent on Alternity, playing a dull game of it is not going to make up for it.  That's just wasting their time on top of their money.

Bring it up to the group and say that you want to go back.  If the boy's parents aren't bluffing then he should distance himself from their wacky asses as soon as possible anyway.  If they are...um, I guess he should still get away.  They sound like bad news to me.

Chris

[DevP]

However, several of the players went out and acquired Alternity material just for the purpose of playing and I hate to make that a waste for them.  Perhaps playing 4 or 5 sessions of Sci Fi and then a number of sessions of Fantasy?  Anyone had any success or failures with that set up?

You enjoy Fantasy, and you should continue playing that if possible (including switching if needed), just because you enjoy it. Sticking with Fantasy might be the best thing.

That said, you could start a new Actual Play thread, trying to look at your sessions with Alternity and figure what went wrong. I understand not wanting to waste the material they bought; also, sci-fi is my preferred genre, so I have an interest in help you make it fun. <g>

With Fantasy, we have a lot of shared conventions about "what the heroes do", and even what they look like and how things work. You've mentioned liking Star Wars and Robotech, but these are both pre-established settings where you had good expectations of what was happen / what players do; whereas StarDrive always came off as somewhat vanilla space-opera fare, and such an environment doesn't necessarily give you a good "hook" as to how you're supposed to feel. Am I getting at the right thing?

[talysman]

I'm going to change my question a bit now.  What suggestions would y'all have about resolving the situation now that it's here?  I'm partially inclined to just say, "Screw it.  We're going back to the other game."  However, several of the players went out and acquired Alternity material just for the purpose of playing and I hate to make that a waste for them.  

my solution?

play a fantasy game, but file off the serial numbers. "it's not magic, it's psionics". if you can do that with the Alternity rules, go ahead. but otherwise, use a fantasy setting that you are accustomed to, just change all the terminology.

not the best solution, but if you get into a dilemma where both options seem wrong, you have to make compromises.

[Jeph]

There are alternatives to fantasy and sci-fi. Do you like wild west (Boot Hill)? Kung-fu action (Wushu, Pagoda, Feng Shui)? Superspy technothrillers (James Bond 007, Spycraft)? If there's a genre you like as much as Fantasy, finding an appropriate game could be your key.

Good luck,
--Jeff

[Clay]

I'll chime in with the "grow a pair" camp.  It's time for both you and your friend to decide what they want in life and make a choice. Any choice is good, so long as you all agree to do it.  Myself, I can't imagine living at home at the age of 20, but I moved out of my parents house when I was 18, so I can't put myself in your friend's position so easily.

As for games, 7th Sea has worked pretty well for our group's efforts to play a fantasy type setting without any 20 sided dice in sight (I get a rash).  Call of Cthulhu also feeds our need pretty well.

[orbsmatt]

This is funny, because I have had a similar situation, but with my own parents.  The whole magic and witchcraft thing always concerned them.  So the system I have uses "technology" instead of magic.  The funny thing is, the technology is controlled by the mind and by words, so it's basically like magic!  And of course, the characters don't actually realize it's technology, making the system feel fantasy-like, but not have any actual magic in it.

Hope this helps.

[Eric Provost]

Have you considered just changing the setting of your Sci-Fi gaming?  I don't know alot about StarDrive, but I'm under the impression that it's a "HardSci" setting.  That is, strong adherance to the technocratic applications of the sci-fi genre.  Perhaps a setting with more of the feel of Dune?  That is to say, just because there are space ships, psionics, and other technological trappings that does not mean that the story and setting can't be Fantastic.  Right?

 I once ran an Alternity game that I intended to have a Dune & StarWars feel to it.  The PCs rode their own spacecraft (complete with AI pilot), but wore a combination of victorian-era upper-class clothing and nazi officer uniforms.  They visited a flying castle (held up by technoligical anti-gravity fields), and investigated the plottings of the Duke cousins to take over part of the Duke's land.

 I wish you luck in getting all this problem sorted out.  Quite the pickle you've put yourself in.

-Eric