[Conan] anyone else playing Conan with Sorcerer & Sword?

[Bifi]

Just from the top of my head. Plainly - if I want to play Gamist and with better rules I rather play Mordheim or Confrontation.

Well, that about sums up your position, doesn't it?  Don't deceive yourself then.  Conan is - and means to be! -  d20, albeit with some rules tweaks and more freedom for slivers of Nar stuff.

Thanks for the response. I address this in my previous post.

[S'mon]

Conan RPG discards this; XP are awarded freeform, not for killing things...

How exactly does the Conan RPG say to award experience? Are there any specific guidelines?

Jason

"Award 1000-2000 XP to each PC per session".  That's about it.  :)

It also says you can increase awards a bit at higher levels, but PCs should generally advance more slowly at higher levels.
Personally I award Conan XP mostly for achievements (eg defeating the pirates & escaping) and for Story Hours.  Current group is low level, I've awarded between 1000 & 1500 XP a session for the first 3 sessions.  If the session was 'unsuccessful' with little impressive achieved I'd award around 300-500 XP, I think.

[S'mon]

Hi Bifi

>>It seems to me completely acceptable (at least in a system that's so heavy on describing anything crunchily) to have some mechanics for social interactions - although that does not mean I'm missing it in other games. I think "stats" like Honor etc. would do. If I understand correctly it's present in Conan.<<

Yup - personally I have more of a problem with a player who rolls a 40 on his Diplomacy check and expects the Hostile dragon to become Friendly, than I do with the player who casts a spell & Charms or Polymorphs the wyrm.  I've been berated for this on ENW.  I think character interaction should generally be resolved by in-character roleplay, with dice only rolled where the result is uncertain.

>>Although in some instances the added complexity in combat could be good (such as in a dramatic adventure-ending fight), but I don't see the necessity for a three-hour long (real time) fight when two wolves attack the party.<<

I have to say that all the Conan combats I've fought so far have resolved quickly, but I've used a lot of unarmoured, non min-maxed foes, fighting low-level PCs.  The Conan RPG has lots of special 'combat maneuvers' derived from the stories, most are very deadly and will tend to speed up combat despite the complexity, as will the likelihood of death through massive damage (any wound doing 20+ hp dmg).

>>With game currencies I mean all the things (stats, mechanics) that are in some way measured, but each differently - starting with hit points, attributes, skills, spell levels etc. It is quite hard to introduce new players to the game (at least players that didn't play any RPG before) although 3e did things to unify the system (that's why it's called d20, isn't it).<,

OK, I agree this is a problem.  Conan cuts down on it a bit, I think.  The magic Power Point system is simpler than D&D slots system, and anyway will rarely be used by PCs unless you allow PC Scholars (sorcerers).

>>Of course S&S genre REQUIRES slaughter, so I'm with you on this one... but as I said in my previous post, thinking in 5-ft. increments and combat strategy (in terms of how best use, if not exploit, the rules) is in some way antithetic to the epic "feel" and atmosphere of combat, at least that's how I feel. Not to mention the fact that whatever level the character is, often his survival stands and falls on one roll (be it attack roll or saving throw).<<

Fate Points in Conan do away with that.  PCs rarely die as long as they still have FPs and the GM is reasonably generous in how they can be used.  We had a death in my Conan game yesterday when the PC chose to use up all their FPs in an heroic stand against the pirate hordes.

>>The "dichotomy of making story-oriented decisions for your character and character effectiveness (combat or else)" means that making story-oriented or in-character (Sim) decisions is not effective. Examples: the character inherited a beautiful masterwork sword from his father but as soon as he finds a generic +1 sword somewhere in a dungeon he tosses it away (repeat as he raises in levels).<<

Not a big problem in Conan anyway, modelling the stories Conan happily wielded whatever came to hand.  There are no +1 swords in core Conan.  BTW this was a huge problem in 1e/2e AD&D but in 3e magic items can be boosted as PCs go up in level, and I've rarely seen a favoured weapon discarded in 3e.

>> OR: If he fights one-handedly it's just plain silly not to take a shield, isn't it? But who in literature used a shield?<<

Sojan Shield-Bearer.  >:)
(Conanesque character created by Michael Moorcock at age 16).

> The same goes with armour or some decisions in combat.
(If I extrapolate correctly, magic items in Conan RPG are rare which is good for my campaigns.)<<

That's right - almost non-existent, per the core Conan book.  In the 3e d20 rules, sword & shield, 2-handed weapon or 2-weapon combat are all reasonable options; 1-handed w no shield isn't though, except for Prestige Classes like Duelist or somesuch.  But the GM can always introduce a 'fencing' feat to make it a viable style if desired - that's what I did.

>>The "way the player is forced to accept the behaviour of his character in certain situations without being able to decide for the character" means e.g. rolling a Will save to see if the character flees no matter how epic the player deems him to be, thus forcing a decision on the player and taking the epic feel of how the player dreamed up his character (surely in DnD no one dreams up a lame or daft character).<<

I agree that that's a problem with _magical_ fear effects - which is the only case where this occurs.  Conan RPG has a lot of Swooning when 1st & 2nd level PCs fail their Terror checks vs the supernatural.  In a level-based system players have to understand that their 1st level PCs ARE NOT 'epic' - YET.  If the players & GM want an Epic game they need to start at higher level.  Personally in playing D&D I seek ways to give my PC fear-resistance - Iron Will feat, prestige class abilities, etc.  Being a Gamist game though I have to accept that if I fail the save, I can be Feared (or killed).  It's not as bad as a Sim game though where the rules try to tell me _how_ to RP my character and punish me for deviation.  Not a d20 fault.

>>As time goes by and my bad experience fades away I'm starting to think whether it could be done successfully.<<

Might be worth a try! :)

-Simon

[Alan]

Hi all,

The Conan RPG recommends rewarding XP at a steady rate, with no relationship to any acheivement, so the character's leverl up every couple sessions.  This is obviously an attempt to remove the gamist incentive to kill things and take their stuff.  It does, of course, retain, the other half of the award system: becoming better at killing things and taking their stuff!

Fate points are awarded for achieving story goals.  I think that they could easily replace XP - just keep track of how many you've spent - once you've sent Fate points equal to your next level, you level up.

Another idea: let players make a list of story goals they'd like to achieve in play. Then the GM can use these as guidelines for creating adventures.  This would work rather like SAs in TROS.

[Bifi]

Hi S'mon,

The more I know about the Conan RPG the more my desire for playing/running it grows. Come to find the right players... :)

Bifi

[Bifi]

Alan,

Your idea with Fate Points means they are actually a reward for completing story goals. Which is quite Nar. And good, IMHO.

Bifi

[S'mon]

Alan,

Your idea with Fate Points means they are actually a reward for completing story goals. Which is quite Nar. And good, IMHO.

Bifi

As Alan says, by the book FPs are to be awarded for achieving major goals; I also awarded 1 for a particularly cool Story Hour.  :)

[Alan]

Yes, I drifted from what the rules say (Fate points for goals) to my own ideas without attributing techniques clearly.

I also think that the game's mechanics for Corruption, especially as a problem for sorcerer's tend to support narrativist play.  It gives the player a standard to play against, similar to (but less powerful than) Humanity in Sorcerer.

[Bifi]

Hi all,

I just happened to think: Is the Conan RG actually Gamist? Isn't it Sim, focused on Setting or Situation Exploration (with Nar elements)? What role does Gamist d20 actually play in it?

Bifi

[Alan]

I haven't played the Conan RPG, so I can't say for sure - but the how to play and gm advice all sound narrativist to me.  Also, Fate points, being the strongest reward system, will tend to support narrativist play I think.

I suspect that the underlying d20 system may occasionally work against narratist priorities, especially if players come from another d20 game expecting what they've experienced in the past.

I think with some care, and some group agreement on creative agenda, Conan can be played for narrativist priorities.

[Kerstin Schmidt]

Bifi - Conan RPG is Gamist with Narr tendencies, definitely not Sim I'd say.  

If you have a Narr-crazy group you can prob shift it further into Narr than it is designed to be, but as S'mon has explained much better and more accurately than me, the d20 rules are there in principle, if with some tweaks.  (As a d20 player and GM, I can play my Conan PC almost without referring to the rulebook, it's that similar.)  

This means it supports combat challenges excellently, social interaction challanges to some extent, and leaves some room for cinematic descriptions of actions and with the Fate Points, limited player influence on the outcome of certain scenes and (if the GM allows and you haven't burnt your Fate Points on gamist stuff) on bits of Plot input.

Overall, d20, derived from DnD, in its turn derived from wargaming, is a Gamist system. As far as I understand, the d20 designers got rid of most of the Sim baggage AD&D appered to have accumulated (I never played AD&D 2nd ed, so this is second-hand info from me).  So when the Conan designers opted for d20 rules, they essentially elected to make a Gamist game.  

There isn't a lot of stuff I've seen in the Conan RPG book that would support a Sim style.  On the contrary, e.g. the book advises GMs to strike surplus equipment off char sheets arbitrarily as it suits them, at the beginning of a scenario.  Resources management being one part of Sim, I'd say that's anti-Sim GM advice (one I'm very grateful for btw, being a Gamist with slight Narr leanings and a distaste for items bookkeeping excesses).

[S'mon]

I haven't played the Conan RPG, so I can't say for sure - but the how to play and gm advice all sound narrativist to me.  Also, Fate points, being the strongest reward system, will tend to support narrativist play I think.

I suspect that the underlying d20 system may occasionally work against narratist priorities, especially if players come from another d20 game expecting what they've experienced in the past.

I think with some care, and some group agreement on creative agenda, Conan can be played for narrativist priorities.

That was my impression exactly.  It doesn't have a Sim 'feel' - eg it doesn't attempt to present a detailed coherent world for exploration, rather it attempts to evoke a mode by which the players can create adventures reminiscent of the REH stories.  So it ignores 'daily life' and the experience of 'actually living in Hyborea' in favour of gripping scenes and colourful characters.

[S'mon]

Hi all,

I just happened to think: Is the Conan RG actually Gamist? Isn't it Sim, focused on Setting or Situation Exploration (with Nar elements)?

I'd say no, it simply isn't focused on Setting/Situation exploration.  The countries of Hyborea are presented more as 'moods' - sinister tomb-shadowed Stygia, sleepy spider-haunted Zamora, mighty conquering Turan - than as 'real places'.  This is just how REH did it.

Of course you can argue it's "Simulating REH's stories" - that always makes my head hurt.  :)

[John Kim]

I'd say no, it simply isn't focused on Setting/Situation exploration.  The countries of Hyborea are presented more as 'moods' - sinister tomb-shadowed Stygia, sleepy spider-haunted Zamora, mighty conquering Turan - than as 'real places'.  This is just how REH did it.

Of course you can argue it's "Simulating REH's stories" - that always makes my head hurt.  :)  

Keep in mind that in the current GNS model, Simulationism is defined completely in narrative terms: i.e. Exploration of Character, Setting, Situation, System, and Color.  So GNS Simulationism can include a high focus on Color, like the moody character of countries.  Simulating stories of a certain type can be considered "pastiche" which Ron says is characteristic of GNS Simulationism.  

There is nothing about cause-and-effect simulation in the current definition of GNS Simulationism.  

However, what you say is characteristic of rgfa Threefold Simulationism, which is defined in terms of sticking to a strict world model.

[S'mon]

I'd say no, it simply isn't focused on Setting/Situation exploration.  The countries of Hyborea are presented more as 'moods' - sinister tomb-shadowed Stygia, sleepy spider-haunted Zamora, mighty conquering Turan - than as 'real places'.  This is just how REH did it.

Of course you can argue it's "Simulating REH's stories" - that always makes my head hurt.  :)  

Keep in mind that in the current GNS model, Simulationism is defined completely in narrative terms: i.e. Exploration of Character, Setting, Situation, System, and Color.  So GNS Simulationism can include a high focus on Color, like the moody character of countries.  Simulating stories of a certain type can be considered "pastiche" which Ron says is characteristic of GNS Simulationism.  

There is nothing about cause-and-effect simulation in the current definition of GNS Simulationism.  

However, what you say is characteristic of rgfa Threefold Simulationism, which is defined in terms of sticking to a strict world model.

Yes, hence my hurting head...  :)