Game system design

[Spawny]

 Well seeing as I just got a copy of the old RPG game The End, my post apocalypse one is getting all the attention now!  Or more accurately, during apocaplypse, its an idea I got from a comic book (though GREATLY expanded upon and a lot changed, but thats where the initial "hey thats a good idea" came from)
 Ill need some kind of rule system to show resourcefullness (is that a word even??? :smile: ) maybe weapon skills of some kind, driving ability, carpentry/welding skills, hunting etc. Basically all skills a good civilisation needs :smile:

[hardcoremoose]

Hey Spawn,

I just saw your post over at RPG.net about self-publishing.  Are you getting any use out of the Publishing forum on this site?  There's a lot of good information there.

I understand how you feel about your game.  The End is a pretty cool game, although I could never really figure out what it wanted me to do.  You probably have a better grasp on that than I did.  But if you have cool post-apocalyptic roleplaying game that already meets your needs, why do you want to design a new one?  I'd look for something that doesn't meet my needs and design a game about that.

Maybe the post-apocalyptic games out there don't meet your needs though.  Most of them are about the same sort of thing - folks wandering around interacting with the hazardous environment, paying lip service to the idea that every day is a struggle to survive.  Notably, Jared's octaNe takes a different approach, throwing away the notions of day-to-day survival, and instead focusing on the things that make post-apocalyptic movies and literature fun - namely, a lot of unapolegetic weirdness.

There are alot of things you can do with the post-apocalypse genre that haven't been done yet.  What about a game where the system encourages players to round up survivors, found new communities, and begin the rebuilding process (I was actually working on this game, so I think it's a cool idea).  I'm sure there are other themes that can be drawn from an end-of-the world setting, other than what we've been shown already.  So what is it about this setting that you find so compelling?  Just from reading your post, I'd say you have some interest in the rebuilding idea.

Take care,
Moose    

[ This Message was edited by: hardcoremoose on 2001-12-24 11:11 ]

[Paul Czege]

Hey Scott,

What about a game where the system encourages players to round up survivors, found new communities, and begin the rebuilding process

The Morrow Project paid lip-service to this idea, but emerged as mostly a combat game in actual play.

Paul

[Spawny]

 Well I think ill be staying away from the rpg.net forums as every time I make a post there I seem to get jumped on by a bunch of people for no reason other than I dont know everything and anything about all rpgs known in existence. Here is much nicer :smile:
 I dont know if The End covers all that I wanted out of that kind of game, but the story is unbelieveably good, but like you said, im not sure exactly what you are supposed to DO in the game, but I think with a good GM who has a good story/adventure it would be fantastic. Apparently there were supposed to be some supplements for the game, which really would have helped, I dont know if they were released though.
 The rpg I have in mind is more focused on rebuilding and protecting what you have and staying alive, because Earth ISNT a safe place to be during the apocalypse! :smile:  Its basically a rebuild your homebase, explore from there, but return to your homebase after each adventure.
 I have got an idea for a more freeform one, but I dont know that anyone other than a very good GM would be able to make it work.

[Zak Arntson]

On 2001-12-24 17:34, Spawny wrote:
The rpg I have in mind is more focused on rebuilding and protecting what you have and staying alive, because Earth ISNT a safe place to be during the apocalypse!  Its basically a rebuild your homebase, explore from there, but return to your homebase after each adventure.

This has tons of potential as a episodic game ... the players and GM (like suggested in Sword & Sorcery) could create the world as the game continues.

Now that you have your Premise: Rebuilding your own pocket of civilization in the ruins of apocalypse ... you can go on to work on the nitty gritty.  I'll stick by my suggestion: Sloppy Brainstorming, Initial Mechanics, Super-duper Trimming.

[Spawny]

On 2001-12-24 18:02, Zak Arntson wrote:
This has tons of potential as a episodic game ... the players and GM (like suggested in Sword & Sorcery) could create the world as the game continues.

 Yep, thats the idea, just give them the world basics, and see what they do with it!  Obviously I'll have to find the balance between too much information stifling the exploring aspect and not enough information making for a boring world.  I guess its better to err on the side of too much, at least then they could use the info. as jumping off points for further exploration.

[hardcoremoose]

What I think would be really cool for a game like that (and this is just me talking) would be rules for gathering followers to you.  I mean, heck, the one thing you really need to rebuild civilization is people.  I'd do something like Hero Wars does, where you can add followers to your character sheet, almost like extensions of your character.  These followers would have skills that you could utilize, essential abilities to help your community grow and thrive.  And if you weren't a good enough leader - if you didn't do the things necessary to protect them and allow them to prosper - then you'd lose followers to disease or accidental death or whatever.

Just an idea...

- Moose  

[Spawny]

On 2001-12-25 10:28, hardcoremoose wrote:
What I think would be really cool for a game like that (and this is just me talking) would be rules for gathering followers to you.  I mean, heck, the one thing you really need to rebuild civilization is people.  I'd do something like Hero Wars does, where you can add followers to your character sheet, almost like extensions of your character.  These followers would have skills that you could utilize, essential abilities to help your community grow and thrive.  And if you weren't a good enough leader - if you didn't do the things necessary to protect them and allow them to prosper - then you'd lose followers to disease or accidental death or whatever.

Just an idea...

- Moose  

 Thats a damn good idea................. :smile:

[Mike Holmes]

Yep, excellent, Moose. Howsabout you play the whole settlment?

Hmmmm.... Tribe 13...

Lets say each character is an "Elder" or somesuch with some political sway over the community. As new folks are brought into the community they join under one player's faction or another. The "Adventures" in the game involve the GM setting up some opportunity, and the elders selecting "exploration parties" or "recruiting parties" whatever, composed of individuals from their factions.

Players then shift character from the planing stage to the execution stage and play their selected underling. This allows a player to play one character (the Elder) repeatedly, and stay involved in the high-level politics (unlike Tribe :cool:, and play as many other characters as they see fit during the different missions. It also means that character death is unwelcome, but does not mean elimination from the game. Just one less character (and, therefore, skill set) to rely upon in future missions.

Anyhow, the opportunity for intra-party conflict is rife. The pro-tech guys will try to bring back items of the predestruction civilization, while the anti-techs will try to destroy them first. The secretists will try to kep the settlement's existence low kwy, while expansionists will try to recruit everyone. You get the idea. Lots of tribal councils to determine the fate of retunrning party members who have assaulted their companions.

Nifty. BTW, FGU's Aftermath! was also generally about this topic, but generally deegenerated into accumulating the biggest junkpile possible.

Mike

[hardcoremoose]

Spawn, Mike...

Some cool ideas are springing up here.  Now toss in some stuff about recruiting new people - finding them, saving them, and bringing them into your fold.  The game should be about more than just interaction with a hostile environment; it should deal with interpersonal relationships, conflicts, and goals.  Heck, that's probably your advancement/reward system right there - new people, with new skills and abilities = increased effectiveness within the game.

Skippy had an idea a while back that involved something similar...the idea of playing the leader of a group, where its individual members became your skill set and an extension of your primary character(so to speak).  Maybe he has something cool to add to all of this.

Take care,
Moose

[Spawny]

 EXACTLY! Think about it, why do you need a skills advancement system when you can just have them search for a person that fits the bill for whatever skill they need? Easy!

[archangel_2]

Alternatively (meaning, another alternative to give to players in addition to finding new people with skills) would be to train members of your tribe as replacements. So the "Shaman" in the anti-tech group, or the mechanic in the tech group, etc. could have an apprentice. The apprentice, while still an apprentice, could never get better than his master, but at the same time would be EXTREMELY useful as a fallback, should the main skilled character die. Just an idea...

Daniel

[Mike Holmes]

On 2001-12-26 02:13, archangel_2 wrote:
The apprentice, while still an apprentice, could never get better than his master, but at the same time would be EXTREMELY useful as a fallback, should the main skilled character die. Just an idea...

Excellent. Solves the problem of assassination, etc. So your lieutenant steps in when your character dies. One cool thing is that you could play the game kinda like Ars Magica where seasons and years may pass between "adventures". In that case characters might die of old age, etc. Would require lots of material for developing what happens during down times, and how well the settlement prospers, etc.

I can see cool campaigns centered around getting your settlement up to strength in time to resist an invasion by some mutant race (led by the obligatory cyber-sorcerer, or whatever). Lots of potential for diplomacy with other nearby settlemtns. Trade agreements. Lotsa good stuff.

Or perhaps the challenge is a disease instead. If the settlement does not have the resources to hole up or technology to fend off the disease they may be wiped out. Lots of long-term possibilities.

Personally, I'm seeing tribal storytellers recounting the tales of the village heroes as they went to the wastes or the ruins off the city to battle brigands and pollution to find treasures important to the settlements survivors. Y'know, all Road-Warrioresque.

Spawny, did you intend for the setting to be "hard" (Morrow Project, Aftermath!) or "soft" sci-fi (Gamma World, Metamorposis Alpha). That is, will the future be relatively realistic, or will it be full of mutants and psionics? If soft, which soft elements do you intend to include? Or do you have something special in mind?

Mike

[Spawny]

 Fairly realistic, slight mutations and so on, but no psionics or anything, also fairly standard weapons etc. as well, its a future that could actually happen basically, as opposed to an outlandish kinda scene.

[Skippy]

Spawn,

My concept, briefly mentioned by Moose, was for a futuristic Bug-hunt type game, where the "Character" was actually a unit of 20 or so Marines.  Depending on the type of unit, they added a skill, and a variable bonus to the combat effectiveness of the unit.  E.g. a Medic might add +1 to combat, and grant the skill of Medicine.  Infantry would add +3 to combat, and grant the skill of Heavy Weapons.  It never really got past the initial development phase.

Now, if you are looking at building a civilization, you might define a loose group of 4 or 5 archetypes that can be key to your sucess.  I'm reminded of the computer game, Lords of Magic, where you choose one of three types as your Lord.  Don't know how close that is to this.

I like the idea of the group relationship.  I like games that foster a strong cooperative spirit, even to the sharing of skills and abilities.  I'm working on a Sacrifice method for a current project, that will allow a character to benefit the group through noble sacrifice, even outside of high dramatic moments.  But I likes me drama, too.

I'm not sure if any of this helps.

Skippy