*
*
Home
Help
Login
Register
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
September 20, 2019, 07:15:21 PM

Login with username, password and session length
Forum changes: Editing of posts has been turned off until further notice.
Search:     Advanced search
275647 Posts in 27717 Topics by 4285 Members Latest Member: - Jason DAngelo Most online today: 158 - most online ever: 429 (November 03, 2007, 04:35:43 AM)
Pages: 1 [2]
Print
Author Topic: Using a rapier with sword and shield style?  (Read 4170 times)
bergh
Member

Posts: 266


« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2004, 08:17:56 AM »

now as we are talking about rapiers, cut and thrust swords.

why not then write some links down so that we all can see the difference?
Logged

Kind regards....

-Brian Bergh
brianbbj@hotmail.com
TRoS .pdf files: http://fflr.dk/tabletop/TROS/
tauman
Member

Posts: 65


« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2004, 09:21:05 AM »

Being at work, I'm limited as to what websites I can see (I'm amazed I can get to this one). I'll try to do this from memory.

If you go to http://www.armor.com and go to rapiers

For Cut & Thrust, there are a few examples that stand out:
1. Milanese Rapier (yes, for Cut & Thrust, despite its name)
2. Gustav Vasa
3. Dresden Sword
4. Saxon Sword (Well, it's got 'Saxon' in its name, but I can't remember the rest).

For Rapier:
1. Elizabethan Rapier
I can't recall other names, but I seem to remember an Italian Rapier and a French Rapier.

One thing to note, there is no clear transition between Cut & Thrust and Rapier. Some Cut & Thrust swords are better at cutting than other, in the same way as some Rapiers are lighter and more agile than others (even within the same period). So while Alfieri's cuts might work particularly well with some rapiers, they might be close to useless with others.

Historically, there was not a clear line between Cut & Thrust techniques and Rapier techniques. While we can look at the earlier Bolognese masters (i.e. Marozzo & Manciolino, et. al.) and say that they were definitely Cut & Thrust, or the later rapier masters (Fabris, Capo Ferro & Alfieri, et. al.) and say that they were clearly using the rapier, but what about the masters in between? Viggiani's techniques sometimes look like rapier techniques, sometimes like C&T. The same for Agrippa.

If we go farther into the future, we start to see the same problem with finding a dividing line between rapier and smallsword.

Steve

Quote from: bergh
now as we are talking about rapiers, cut and thrust swords.

why not then write some links down so that we all can see the difference?
Logged
tauman
Member

Posts: 65


« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2004, 11:23:26 AM »

Okay, here are some specific links. Note that some of the Cut & Thrust swords are termed "rapiers." While I guess you could say that this is something of a misnomer according to our modern classification, historically, the term "rapier" was used rather indiscriminantly by the English and the Germans to refer to a wide selection of swords, while Italians never used the term rapier (referring to the weapon with the term "Spada" or sword).

Cut & Thrust:
http://www.armor.com/2000/catalog/item084.html
http://www.armor.com/2000/catalog/item162.html
http://www.armor.com/2000/catalog/item111.html
http://www.armor.com/2000/catalog/item121.html
http://www.armor.com/2000/catalog/item135.html
http://www.armor.com/2000/catalog/item192.html

Rapier:
http://www.armor.com/2000/catalog/item171.html
http://www.armor.com/2000/catalog/item168.html
http://www.armor.com/2000/catalog/item190.html
http://www.armor.com/2000/catalog/item127.html
http://www.armor.com/2000/catalog/item170.html
http://www.armor.com/2000/catalog/item169.html
http://www.armor.com/2000/catalog/item163.html

Steve
Logged
Caz
Member

Posts: 272


« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2004, 11:49:14 AM »

I think the generally accepted differentiation nowdays, it that if it has any hope of doing more than harrassing with an edge blow, it's a cut and thrust, if it'll only lacerate, leave a welt, bruise, or is pointy enough the blade may break with an edge blow, it's a rapier.  Generally.  Exceptions may be rapiers with spatulate points to leave somone needing stitches with a good blow.
    Sensible enough?
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]
Print
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC
Oxygen design by Bloc
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!