[Sorcerer & Sword]Non-sorcerer PCs?

[tetsujin28]

I may just be being lame, but how does one handle non-sorcerer PCs in a S&S setting, without relegating them to the "second-class PC locker", ala Ars Magica companions? Seems to me that many of the classic S&S characters -- Conan, Fafhrd, Solomon Kane, to name a few -- were 'just guys', rather than sorcerers.

[Ron Edwards]

Hey,

The key is to get away from "sorcerer" and focus on Lore. All the characters you mention, and in fact any protagonist in the source fiction for Sorcerer & Sword, have Lore of 1 or higher. I make a case in the text that Conan, for instance, carries out numerous rituals and Lore rolls throughout the Howard stories.

Given a Lore score of 1 or higher, the issue of whether a character routinely Summons and Binds demons is quite trivial.

Best,
Ron

[joshua neff]

And the PCs are not "just guys," even if they are demonless at the beginning of the game. They are still the protagonists & wrestling with Humanity issues. (And while they may begin with no demons Bound, they can always Summon & Bind demons later in the game.)

[Bankuei]

Hi guys,

Right, and when you use that logic, everybody from Ghostbusters to St. George can fall under the definition of a sorcerer.  The key point is anyone who knows how to deal with demons on some level, even if that only means getting rid of them.  This also means if your definition of demon is an alien, then its people who have some clue about how they work.  The movie, Signs, would be a good example of someone going from Lore 0 to Lore 1, in that regard.

Chris

[Andrew Norris]

It's important to also remember that simply possessing and using a "magic item" makes you a sorcerer. For instance, Arthur drawing the sword from the stone could be considered having summoned and bound an object demon.

"Whomever draws this sword from the stone shall become the rightful King of England" might sound like a blessing, but when I put my Sorcerer hat on, having to fulfill your destiny sounds like a Need to me. Fulfilling that Need got him killed, too.

There's another excellent example in S&S of a character who's being stalked by a demon that intends to kill him, and the character manages to live in almost a state of detente with that demon, because he gets himself into jams that the demon must help him out of (because it has to be the one that eventually kills him). Just surviving whatever initial adventure kicked off this relationship, and having learned how to stave off death by providing its Need of Ruin, would qualify the character as having a Lore of at least 1.

[tetsujin28]

Yeah, but Fafhrd using Bind or Banish? I dunno -- maybe I'm just not getting it.

[Seth L. Blumberg]

When Fafhrd smacks the crap out of a demon, causing it to dissolve in a puff of ugly smoke, he is functionally Banishing it.

Likewise, Fafhrd has obviously Pacted with...is it Sheela or Ningauble? I can't remember which hero has which demon.

[BPetroff93]

Actually Fafrd does a bit of magic in one of the short stories.....forgot which one but it's kind of a contact / summon / short term pact.

I think what you are missing tetsujin is that S&S is not quite the same as Sorcerer.  Similar but not exactly the same.  It's more about humanity choices and the influence of a threating supernatural presence than specific human to demon interaction.  

Anyway, that's my two cents.  I'm actually gearing up for a S&S game right now.  I'll post our first session in actual play soon.  We'll see if I have any more insights after.

[Ron Edwards]

Hey,

Depending on your interpretation, the entirety of "Lean Times in Lankhmar" is a Fafhrd-as-sorcerer story.

Best,
Ron

[tetsujin28]

Hmm. I can kind of see your point. And Solomon Kane has his juju stick, which I guess could be seen as a pagan 'demon' magic item.