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275647 Posts in 27717 Topics by 4285 Members Latest Member: - Jason DAngelo Most online today: 158 - most online ever: 429 (November 03, 2007, 04:35:43 AM)
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Author Topic: [Sorcerer] Questions on Combat Mechanics  (Read 6118 times)
Bifi
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Posts: 32


« on: May 03, 2004, 04:51:24 AM »

Hi all,

we started to play Sorcerer and met the following issues:

1. If a NPC/monster has more total penalties than, let's say, its Stamina, is it allowed to act? Or how is it limited? Is the 1 die in "defence" still rolled? Is it able to use the Will mechanics to gain dice?

2. In one of the previous posts there was something like this: If you are hit in a round before you act, your roll stands but the penalty gained is added to opposing dice. How does that work in the next round? And if the total penalties lower your opponent's dice to zero or below - is there 1 opposing dice and do you gain the rest as bonus dice?

3. The "saving victories" mechanics: I see the 2 options for using it in order to ensure a Total Victory. But how is it used in order to avoid Total Victory (as there are no "non-victory" dice)?

BTW: How many dice do you actually use during a session? Last session we had a combat between 2 strong characters and one beast, no demons. If we wanted the rolls to stay on the table, there was a situation where ca. 25 dice wasn't enough.

Thanks,
Michal
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Shadowy forms in gaslight bleed
Broken glass in absinthe dreams
Swirling down on wings of pain
To where emotions wounded lay
Crouching, crippled, tattered, bare
Ron Edwards
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« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2004, 08:04:13 AM »

Hello,

I love Sorcerer questions.

Quote
1. If a NPC/monster has more total penalties than, let's say, its Stamina, is it allowed to act? Or how is it limited? Is the 1 die in "defence" still rolled? Is it able to use the Will mechanics to gain dice?


This answer applies to PCs just like NPCs. Let's talk about defense first. In these circumstances, the character rolls 1 die for defense, and a die is added to the offensive roll (just roll the die and add it to the guy's existing pool, which might be sitting there already rolled).

So if Gary has -4 penalties and a Stamina 4, and Barry is hitting him with 5 dice, then Gary rolls 1 die for defense and Barry gets to add a die on his side, for a total of 6. It's the currency equation in action.

Offense (or more accurately, stated actions) is a little trickier. The answer is basically "as above," but do note that the character's total penalties may put limits on his or her stated actions. One of the tables in the combat section (reproduced in the final pages) is all about this.

Quote
2. In one of the previous posts there was something like this: If you are hit in a round before you act, your roll stands but the penalty gained is added to opposing dice. How does that work in the next round?


Doesn't matter. The issue concerns action by action, not round by round. Temporary penalties apply to the next action, regardless of whether it occurs later in the same round or in the next round entirely.

There's no "re-set" of any scores or penalties between rounds in Sorcerer. Rounds are only defined by "clashes" or sub-sets within an action sequence, taking everyone into account.

Quote
And if the total penalties lower your opponent's dice to zero or below - is there 1 opposing dice and do you gain the rest as bonus dice?


Yes, as described above.

Quote
3. The "saving victories" mechanics: I see the 2 options for using it in order to ensure a Total Victory. But how is it used in order to avoid Total Victory (as there are no "non-victory" dice)?


There's an older thread about this in the Adept Press forum, begun by Supplanter. I apologize for not hunting it, but I'm seriously time- and equipment-constrained. I'll come back in a bit and cite it for you.

Quote
BTW: How many dice do you actually use during a session? Last session we had a combat between 2 strong characters and one beast, no demons. If we wanted the rolls to stay on the table, there was a situation where ca. 25 dice wasn't enough.


25 seems excessive for that situation, but not too much. Play in general seems to require about 10 dice per player and about twice that for the GM.

Best,
Ron
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Bifi
Member

Posts: 32


« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2004, 04:15:22 AM »

Ron,

Thanks for your answers.

I found this: http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=588&highlight=sorcerer

However, it doesn't answer how to avoid Total Victory being scored against you since there are no "non-victory" dice you might cancel (and even if you did you would make it a Total Victory). My players intuitively understood it as either ensuring Total Victory for their characters or cancelling opponent's success dice.

Best,
Michal
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To see hell through lifeless eyes
Shadowy forms in gaslight bleed
Broken glass in absinthe dreams
Swirling down on wings of pain
To where emotions wounded lay
Crouching, crippled, tattered, bare
Ron Edwards
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« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2004, 06:19:52 AM »

Hello,

Ah! A quick look at the book and I'm all set.

If the opponent scores a Total Victory against you with X dice, and if you have X or more saved victories from a previous successful roll, then you may cancel all of his victorious dice (i.e. his whole roll).

Technically, he still succeeds against you with 1 victory, but he does not get a Total Victory (or even the effects of all those dice).
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Ron Edwards
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« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2004, 01:43:03 PM »

Oh look! I noticed something else in your first post.

You asked, whether a monster/NPC could utilize Will dice to overcome overwhelming penalties. Although it was embedded in a more important issue about the dice themselves, it's worth answering on its own.

Only sorcerer characters (PC or NPC) may make use of the rules which permit a character to roll Will against a desired number of dice, when they want to take action under otherwise-whelmingly-impaired conditions.

Best,
Ron
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Bifi
Member

Posts: 32


« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2004, 12:10:40 AM »

Quote from: Ron Edwards
Only sorcerer characters (PC or NPC) may make use of the rules which permit a character to roll Will against a desired number of dice, when they want to take action under otherwise-whelmingly-impaired conditions.


I have to thank you again, your answers prove to be most helpful. During our yesterday's session one of the players questioned the mentioned Will mechanics. His argument went along the lines that you could gain more dice than you have usually in this situation (a character with, let's say, Stamina 2 and Will 7 would easily be able to get 5-6 dice, or even with luck more than 10 (just because someone bashed you on the head and you're seeing stars). Maybe I missed something in the rules, nevertheless we house-ruled it to a maximum that you would normally get (i.e. 2 in this case).
What's your take?

Thanks again,
Bifi
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To see hell through lifeless eyes
Shadowy forms in gaslight bleed
Broken glass in absinthe dreams
Swirling down on wings of pain
To where emotions wounded lay
Crouching, crippled, tattered, bare
Ron Edwards
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« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2004, 06:27:06 AM »

Hiya,

That's not a house rule, that is the rule. You can gain dice back up to the score's value, not more. (Bonuses can add to that, but not the primary Will roll.) You guys just missed the text about that and fixed it "back" on your own.

Best,
Ron
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Bifi
Member

Posts: 32


« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2004, 10:13:28 PM »

OK, so we're on the track. Thanks again Ron, take care.
M
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To see hell through lifeless eyes
Shadowy forms in gaslight bleed
Broken glass in absinthe dreams
Swirling down on wings of pain
To where emotions wounded lay
Crouching, crippled, tattered, bare
Rob MacDougall
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Posts: 160


« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2004, 06:10:18 AM »

Can I piggyback a related question on this question?

When a sorcerer succeeds in their Will roll to temporarily regain Stamina (or some other score) do they then gain a number of dice equal to the Victories they rolled on the Will roll or do they automatically get the amount of dice they were going for by rolling any degree of Victory?

Rob
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Ron Edwards
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« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2004, 06:34:49 AM »

Hi Rob,

The latter. If my character is carrying five current (temporary + lasting) penalties and his Stamina is 3, and I successfully roll his Will (5) vs. all 3 Stamina, and if I succeed, then I have 3 Stamina now. The victories from that roll are irrelevant to the value of the "restored" score.

Conceivably, they may be brought in as some kind of roll-over for later rolls if the circumstances work for it.

Also, that Stamina score is not affected by any damage for the next action, and subsequently, all the temporary penalties are gone (they never actually had any effect in play either).

Best,
Ron
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Rob MacDougall
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Posts: 160


« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2004, 08:36:00 AM »

Gotcha. Thanks!
Rob
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Ron Edwards
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« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2004, 08:41:15 AM »

Damn, reading my post, I realize that someone might misunderstand something.

It is as follows: the restored score is merely ignoring the damage that previously assigned the penalties. It is not "immune" to damage that's delivered later, nor to lasting penalties following the next action.

Best,
Ron
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Rob MacDougall
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Posts: 160


« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2004, 09:30:30 AM »

Right. So the sorcerer gets one action at the restored score, then goes back to suffering whatever lasting penalties they were suffering - but the "next action" penalties on that action have now elapsed. And if they're still in the hole Stamina-wise, there's no reason the Sorcerer can't do the Will thing again next round, right?

Rob
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Ron Edwards
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« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2004, 07:36:33 PM »

Hi,

Right on all counts, Rob.

Best,
Ron
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