The Forge Archives

"...Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown..."
Shakespeare Henry IV- Part II


Sorcerers are kings and queens.  They bind their subjects to their throne, crown and scepter, thus awakening their full potential and power.  This potential sleeps in all people and only true nobility can bring it boiling to the surface through noble ritual.

This is not to say that noble ritual is a good thing.  Most people would be happy to keep their heads down and out of the duels, conflicts and wars between nations but when their sovereign calls the subject is dutybound to answer.

"Duty is heavy as a mountain, death as light as a feather."
- one of them-there big ole Jordan books

Demons are vassals, knights, nations?, keeps

(Note:  I have this vague idea where everyone's initial Demon is the Nation they rule but this whole idea is still forming in my mind.)

Inspirations- A Lion in Winter, A Song of Ice and Fire, Shogun, Henry IV Part I & Part II, Birthright, Kull

Rituals

With their ravens and messengers, a ruler can Contact their subjects.

Through royal decrees and force of arms a liege can Summon any commoner to their court.

With blood oaths of fealty, grants of land and the knighting of worthy subjects, vassals are Bound.

Taxes, fines and corporeal punishment allow the throne to Punish those whose blood has been awakened.

Through confinement to a Tower, tossing someone in a dungeon or obliette, a vassal might be Contained.

With threats and blackmail those in power can Banish the vassals of another kingdom, make them all but useless.

Humanity – Domestic Happiness/Stately Glory - I'm thinking of a Sex and Sorcery inspired two-pronged Humanity, one is Empathy, or the hope of having a normal life and the love and time it takes to have such a life.

The other is Stately Glory, or the power that comes from wearing the crown.

Domestic Happiness losses when cold and terrible things are done in the name of the kingdom.

Domestic Happiness gains when family and justice are seen to first.

Stately Glory losses when the kingdom is made to appear weak or is diminished or is insulted without retribution.

Stately Glory gains when the kingdom is added to, strong alliances are sealed with other nations or the throne makes a strong showing.

(Note:  I'm considering doing away with this complicated two pronged approach and only having Stately Glory but the idea of having the happiness and home life of these rules appeals to me.)

When you reach 0 Humanity you can hand your kingdom off to an heir and retire to a tower, leaving the throne and the games of state.  

I also like the idea that the character will die that very game and the GM and the player begins to march their character towards a suitable and dramatic end-point.

Once that character is gone, the player takes up the mantle of their former character's heir.  If the character retires to a tower, they can even be their next character's Demon.

Demons are vassals, knights, nations?, keeps

Angels are Gods

Lore is statecraft, history, geneology

Immenents are mythic beasts - I like the idea of the players being able to Pact with dragons, griffons and gorgons.

The first session of this game would be held over a blank map of some kind.  Each player would choose a kingdom and decide its characteristics based on its borders.    

It would be during this nation creation period where the players would decide the flavor of the world and possible making a list of descriptors to enhance their choice.  This game could take place among daymio of feudal Japan or kings and queens of a Greyhawk-ish fantasy world and maybe even modern espionage.  The type of kingdoms at work and the kind of story to tell should be decided right away.

I see sessions sometimes spanning years.

this looks exciting! on a matter of scope, PCs would be rulers of separate nations (or a royal couple) - how do you see them interacting with each other?

what is Lore?

Quote from: kwillthis looks exciting! on a matter of scope, PCs would be rulers of separate nations (or a royal couple) - how do you see them interacting with each other?

what is Lore?

I do see them interacting with each other at state weddings, wars, peace treaties and clandestine meetings.  PC's would only be all on screen together during the most exciting and dramatic scenes, as I see it.

Lore is statecraft, history, geneology

Quote from: PakaI do see them interacting with each other at state weddings, wars, peace treaties and clandestine meetings.  PC's would only be all on screen together during the most exciting and dramatic scenes, as I see it.

I'd also add that players don't have to be on screen together to interact -- especially not at this level. Assuming all players have a strong starting kicker and are in kingdoms near (if not adjacent) to each other, then they will interact, just not like a normal RPG party.

Really, imagine the possibilities if one of the backgrounds of the campaign is around the lines of "You're already a king, but now is the time when the High King will rise. It has been prophesied for 1000 years, and the Stone of Kings is screaming every night as it waits for the Great Lord. His/hers will be the power, his/hers will be the glory, and the future of the land is his/hers to command." Then get every PC a reason to think that they, and only they, are the best choice for High King, and watch the Blood Opera roll. It'd be quit easy to tell a story of how ruling and war and the desire for power destroys/ennobles the human soul.

Although, in that case I'd probably rate Humanity as something closer to the ability to balance the needs of justice/the people with the needs of power/security/personal glory. Someone with a high Humanity is a benevolent ruler who lives in harmony with the people, someone will a low Humanity is becoming a tyrant/demagogue/butcher who will do anything to maintain control.

Or you could do it with a more Birthright twist and assume that the human nobles with their exalted bloodlines are linked to the land, and humanity represents the humanness of the character, those with low humanity start to become archetypal, binding with the land and becoming mere forms – possibly even apotheosizing and becoming one with the land. Something to be desired, perhaps... or is it?

At that point Humanity could be based on the idea that the difference between the "good" human lords ruling with magic and the "evil" awnsheghlien lords ruling with magic is only a difference of corruption, not a difference of essential nature. If a Lord loses all humanity they become, directly or indirectly, immediately or over time, one of the awnsheghlien. This gets closer to a traditional power corrupts motif.

Anyway, I have to say I'm really jazzed by your idea. The possibilities are certainly tempting.

Brand_Robbins,

I'm glad that you're jazzed.  My Thursday night 7th Sea group has two weeks in a row of cancelled games, so I e-mailed this as a possible choice of games to fill the spots.

I'm thinking that the coronation of each ruler might be their Binding scene if I stick with the initial Demon that PC's start with is a nation or a throne somehow.

Your ideas have given me a bit to think about and I'll probably pick apart your post for ideas when I have more time.

Just popped in an Aerosmith CD from the Pandora's Box CD and this song came on.

Kings and Queens

Long ago in days I'm told
Were ruled by Lords of greed
Maidens fared with gold
They dared to bare their wombs that bleed

Kings and queens and guillotines
Taking lives denied
Starch and parchment laid the laws
When bishops took the ride
Only to deceive

Oh I know I lived this life afore
Somehow know now truths I must be sure
Tossin turnin' nightmares burnin' dreams of swords in hand
Sailin' ships the Viking spits the blood of father's land
Only to deceive

Living times of knights and mares
Raising swords for maidens fair
Sneer at death fear only loss of pride

Living other centuries
Deja vu or what you please
Follows true to all who do or die

Screams of no reply they died
Screams of no reply and died
Lordy lordy and then then they died
Lordy no then they died

Live and do or die
Long ago were days I told...Lord they died
Kings and queens and guillotines...
Live and no reply they died
Long ago were days I told...
Kings and queens and guillotines...

Judd, I've got to say you've perked my interest. But that's because I'm a Birthright geek. Nothing really more to add.

Hi, Judd.

As someone who fantasized about how cool Aria: Canticle of the Monomyth would be for years before I was able to get my hands on the behemoth (and was disappointed), this idea really excites me. My suggestion would be that the demons should be power groups within, or even across, each kingdom. So, when you're crowned, you've got the support of your noble house, but that's it. Through the game, you can try to bind the church, other houses, guilds, and the like to bow to your throne. In this setting, I think UnBound social group demons should *not* lose Power for being UnBound--they become rebel forces against your reign.

This is *definite* mini-supplement territory here!

Quote from: Michael S. MillerSo, when you're crowned, you've got the support of your noble house, but that's it. Through the game, you can try to bind the church, other houses, guilds, and the like to bow to your throne. In this setting, I think UnBound social group demons should *not* lose Power for being UnBound--they become rebel forces against your reign.

This is *definite* mini-supplement territory here!

Michael,

This is why I post this shit, to get ideas bouncing around.  I think your ideas are great.

I'm thinking there will be different kinds of Demons.

Individual vassal Demons - individuals whose powers are brought to light by the Sorcerer.  When they are unbound they don't dissolve but their powers do.

Groups - These are guilds, religious groups. etc.  They would operate exactly as you have imagined.  Nice.

I like the idea of the Sorcerer's starting Demon being their own Noble house and they have to fight, Summon and risk Humanity to get the support of the other Demon-vassals.

I think Pacting rules will be handy in this kind of game.  I will have to re-read 'em.

Thanks for the feedback.

Yep, me, too. Long ago, we played this game where we'd each take one of the countries on the World of Greyhawk map, and then play a wargame, essentially, with it. Never seemed to really work like I thought it should, however. You never really got the whole idea of the people behind the actions, and thier reasons. Too "gamey".

This should allow just the right stuff. For nations, just have them operate on their own abstract level - it's really very simple. If your country has Confuse, then perhaps you have access to a spy network that this represents. If the nation has Travel, that could mean some manner of transporting armies quickly from place to place (and PCs, too, of course, therefore). Anyhow, nations can only do damage to each other on that scale.

So you have the "wargame" element covered. What I'm really intrested in seeing are the needs and desires that the nations place on the shoulders of the rulers.

Oh, BTW, remember that all rituals have to have some pertinence to any sort of demon that you can summon. So, for nations:

Contact - mesenger diplomacy
Summoning - actual face to face diplomacy
Binding - the outcome of diplomacy, treaties
Pacting - uh, pacts
Punish - economic sanctions
Banish - breaking diplomatic relations

The neat thing is that you can build the whole world this way. Players can decide who their neighboring "demons" are in terms of what nations are where. Then they can decide who to try to bind, etc. And each king, of course, starts out with one bound.

"I want to contact a nation of ice barbarians from the far north."

Neat.

Anyhow, as demons, the attention that international diplomacy requires means that it will be inimical to the "normal life" Humanity definition.

Mike

Mike,

It was the world-building aspects of this that drew me to it.  The way players can really Summon anything as long as it fits in the game appeals to me.

The idea for it, I now realize, was Ron's reading of the Dictionary of Mu and how it tended to work at the table, with players summoning dead ideas from the past, it mean history was being somewhat written as we played.

I think this kind of nation-building could be cool.

Summoning and Binding other nations is problematic for me.  I'd think other kingdoms were other Sorcerers with various vassals bound to them.

Otherwise players would also have to be Bind-able and Punish-able Demons, which is interesting but wasn't exactly where I was headed.

Still, interesting stuff to think about.  I might have to re-read Sorcerer's Soul, particularly the sections about players changing into Demons and the other way around.  Something to think about.

Thanks for reading.

Quote from: PakaOtherwise players would also have to be Bind-able and Punish-able Demons, which is interesting but wasn't exactly where I was headed.

Not really. It is the realm that is the demon, not the ruler. Summoning somone elses realm is like trying to steal their bound demon. Summoning a realm that has no current ruler (or no current "divine blood" ruler if you're going the Birthright route) is summoning an unbound demon.

What Brand said.

Or, what I was thinking is that only the PCs are "empire builders," only they have the true Birthright. So while kings may sit on the thrones of other kingdoms, they're just part of the kingdom, not sorcerers at all.

Mike

Quote from: Mike HolmesWhat Brand said.

Or, what I was thinking is that only the PCs are "empire builders," only they have the true Birthright. So while kings may sit on the thrones of other kingdoms, they're just part of the kingdom, not sorcerers at all.

Mike

Interesting stuff.  True Kings and players, in this kind of setting, could be the vizier, the Power Behind the Throne, or the head of a multi-kingdom conspiracy.

That's interesting.

Right. To paraphrase from Hudson Hawk:

"You've got an important meeting to attend."

"With who, the President?"

"No, somebody with real power."

Mike