Comedy Games- Are Lite rules the way to go?

[Ryan Wynne]

I am creating a comedy game called Hillbilles deluxe and I am thinking that rules lite is the way to go.  It would involve D6 + Stat + skill vs a DL (Difficulty Level) or the above formula vs another player (or NPCs) Forumla for person to person conflict.

  Since this is a comedy game and I dont think it needs to be rules heavy I am curious to find out what people think of this.

[quozl]

I think it depends on what you want the game mechanics to do.  For a comedy game, I can think of two possiblities at the moment:

One, the results get the characters into comedic situations.
Two, the results are comedic themselves.

[Ryan Wynne]

I think it depends on what you want the game mechanics to do.  For a comedy game, I can think of two possiblities at the moment:

One, the results get the characters into comedic situations.
Two, the results are comedic themselves.

 Well the mechanics given were for performing anything from shooting a gun to driving a truck.  I dont really see the game mechanics needing to weigh down the game and I think the mechanics I pointed out could do the job.

[hanschristianandersen]

Ryan,

I can sympathize with not wanting to drown the spirit of a game in rules.  D6+skill vs D6+skill is certainly simple and fast; I chose it for my first draft of Musketeers! for the same reason.  Musketeers! is supposed to be fast, toungue-in-cheek, and more than a little absurd.

In actual playtest, though, D6+ vs. D6+ proves to be pretty darn boring by itself.  There's a very limited range of possibilities, and only two different outcomes - "I Win" and "I Lose".  This isn't to say that there wasn't plenty of successful comedy in my playtests; rather, my point is that the die rolls themselves added nothing to the experience.  On the bright side, Search and Handling time was almost nil, which meant that the die rolls didn't actively *hurt* the comedic aspects either.  But if it was neither helpful nor harmful, it might as well be replaced with coin-flipping or rock-paper-scissors.

So, can you think of a simple, fast-playing way of determining success/failure that is itself a source of comedy?  Perhaps keep D6+ vs. D6+, but have a "6" mean "And whether or not my total is higher, I get to say or do something that screws you"?

Just a thought.

[ethan_greer]

There's absolutely nothing funny about your mechanic, and it doesn't support funny stuff happening in play in any way.

However, I'm going to operate on the assumption that your game attempts to generate its humor through use of Color, Situation, Setting, and Character, leaving System simply as a tool to settle the question of who succeeds or fails.  This is fine provided that the players of the game are "on board" with the subject matter and find it humorous, and have the creativity and desire to play to the subject matter. This can be accomplished through the use of amusing and clever game text that excites the reader with the possiblities of being funny in the sort of game your text describes.

So. Assuming your game text does this, there's no particular need for the system's mechanics to be funny in and of themselves. But giving your mechanics the ability to generate humor will cause your game to stand out in the field of humor games dominated by the approach you describe in your first post.

Word on the street is that Ron Edwards's Elfs has humor-generating mechanics that work well, but I can't speak to that since I don't own it and have never played it. Might be worth looking into for inspiration.

All that is well and good, but does little to address your actual question. So here's my answer to that: Yeah, I think rules-light will serve a tongue-in-cheek game better than rules-heavy. (By heavy/light I assume we're talking about search and handling time during play.) In general, I think you would want a ruleset that can fade into the background.

[Valamir]

That's a great point Hans.

For a comedy game about Hillbillies, I'm thinking having numerically rated skills might be entirely unnecessary.

Whatabout just descriptive traits.

Billy Bob:
Shoot Gud
Drive mah truck
Don't cotton to no immigrants ("they tuk mah jeb")

Then for a system its always just 1d6 vs 1d6.  If you have a Trait that seems applicable roll an extra d6 and keep the highest.

But you can also add a Hill Billy die (of a different color) any time you want.  If you do and the Hill Billy die is highest than you have to describe some Hill Billy-ism that enabled your effort.  "Billy Bob didn't just leave the sheriff in the dust, he ramped the crick with a Yee Haw."

But if you roll a 1 on the Hill Billy die...then you have to automatically fail due to some Hill Billy-ism.  Poor Billy Bob coulda gotten away plumb clean, but Ole Man Watson's old hound dog Stonewall was sunnin' hisself in the middle of the road...and twern't no way Billy Bob was gonna run over good ole Stonewall.

[timfire]

For a comedy game about Hillbillies, I'm thinking having numerically rated skills might be entirely unnecessary.

I was thinking the same thing. I also thought I would add that a fortune-in-the-middle might help a comedy game, since it leaves a more room for narration. Actually, conflict resolution in general might work better for a comedy game than task resolution.

You know, if you're just looking for general tips on designing a better comedy game, rather than specific concerns about your game, it might be better to start a thread on the Theory board.

[Ryan Wynne]

Ryan,

I can sympathize with not wanting to drown the spirit of a game in rules.  D6+skill vs D6+skill is certainly simple and fast; I chose it for my first draft of Musketeers! for the same reason.  Musketeers! is supposed to be fast, toungue-in-cheek, and more than a little absurd.

 Well actually it's D6+Skill (Is there is a skill) + Stat Vs D6 + Skill + Stat but I think it

In actual playtest, though, D6+ vs. D6+ proves to be pretty darn boring by itself.  There's a very limited range of possibilities, and only two different outcomes - "I Win" and "I Lose".  This isn't to say that there wasn't plenty of successful comedy in my playtests; rather, my point is that the die rolls themselves added nothing to the experience.  On the bright side, Search and Handling time was almost nil, which meant that the die rolls didn't actively *hurt* the comedic aspects either.  But if it was neither helpful nor harmful, it might as well be replaced with coin-flipping or rock-paper-scissors.

Well as I said I am looking at D6 + Skill (if available) +1 +Modifers (if needed) and I am also looking at doing a degree of success chart.

  For instance a roll of D6 a roll of 6 automatically allows the player to roll again for a greater degree of sucess.

   Something like this:

    0 to +5- Successful  (0 being that the roll hit the Difficulty level right on- Example I have to roll a difficulty level of 13 and I get a total of 13)

    +6 to +10 Very Successful

    +11 to +15 Extreme Success

    It's a work in progress.  And then do same for failure to find out how bad they failed.

     It's a Work in Progress

So, can you think of a simple, fast-playing way of determining success/failure that is itself a source of comedy?  Perhaps keep D6+ vs. D6+, but have a "6" mean "And whether or not my total is higher, I get to say or do something that screws you"?

Just a thought.[/quote]

[hanschristianandersen]

Ralph,

"Dagnabbit!  Git yer feelthy hands offa mah dice, ya varmint!"

Heh.  Sorry, I couldn't resist saying that after reading your post.  For humor games, I think that it's vitally important that the text of the game have lots of funny examples, to get players into the right silly mindset, to show them what they can do and to get their imaginations going.  Ralph's brief examples got me instantly jazzed up about the idea of a hillbilly game.


Ryan,

There's nothing inherently wrong with your mechanic, but there's still no inherent humor to it.  It's so close, though... Right now, you've got several levels of success or failure (Normal, Very, Extremely, etc.).  So, if I'm takin' a potshot at the varmint who tried to swipe mah dice, and I get a Successful result, how is that different from shooting him and getting an Extremely Successful result?

Well, what if a baseline Success means "Yehp, ah shot the varmint awl right", where an Extreme Success lets me embellish more - "Yehp, ah shot the varmint awl right - and golly gee, he had a pocket full of twenny dollah bills!  I'm gonna buy me some moonshine!"

That's what I'm talking about - use the dice rules as an excuse to let players say and do hillbilly things.  Suddenly, the same stat+skill+modifier+d6 becomes "How much hillbilly mojo do I get to pile on this time?"

[Ryan Wynne]

Ryan,

There's nothing inherently wrong with your mechanic, but there's still no inherent humor to it.  It's so close, though... Right now, you've got several levels of success or failure (Normal, Very, Extremely, etc.).  So, if I'm takin' a potshot at the varmint who tried to swipe mah dice, and I get a Successful result, how is that different from shooting him and getting an Extremely Successful result?

Well, what if a baseline Success means "Yehp, ah shot the varmint awl right", where an Extreme Success lets me embellish more - "Yehp, ah shot the varmint awl right - and golly gee, he had a pocket full of twenny dollah bills!  I'm gonna buy me some moonshine!"

That's what I'm talking about - use the dice rules as an excuse to let players say and do hillbilly things.  Suddenly, the same stat+skill+modifier+d6 becomes "How much hillbilly mojo do I get to pile on this time?"

The mechanics arent supposed to be part of the humor, they aer only to make sure things happen.  I dont see that they really need to be part of the humor.  They are to make sure actions are successful or not.  As for the success chart that was something I was tinkering with and I am not sure I am goign to even use it.

[Valamir]

The mechanics arent supposed to be part of the humor, they aer only to make sure things happen. I dont see that they really need to be part of the humor. They are to make sure actions are successful or not. As for the success chart that was something I was tinkering with and I am not sure I am goign to even use it.

That sounds like a huge missed opportunity to me.

Mechanics that do nothing but determine success and failure are pretty pointless in a game meant to be about Hill Billy Humor.

I mean, who really cares whether Billy Bob actually hits what he's shooting at as long as it funny?

[Ryan Wynne]

That sounds like a huge missed opportunity to me.

Mechanics that do nothing but determine success and failure are pretty pointless in a game meant to be about Hill Billy Humor.

I mean, who really cares whether Billy Bob actually hits what he's shooting at as long as it funny?

 I disagree.  The mechanics in Teenagers From Outer Space did little in the way of making sure something was funny, just if there was success or not.  The characters actions are what makes it funny, it's the mechanics that simply determine if their action is successful or not.

[Valamir]

Well, ok.  Its your game.

I won't really be able to help you with it, because that design philosophy is one I vehemently and strongly disagree with.

In fact, I'd go so far as to state that any mechanic that adds nothing to support a game's flavor and color and serves only to adjudicate success and failure is a complete and utter waste of time.  Its certainly not worth inventing a new system for that.

I mean, if that's all your system does...why would anyone even need your game?  Everybody's seen Beverly Hill Billies, the Dukes of Hazard,  and those old Hatfield and McCoy Bugs Bunny cartoons.  They certainly don't need your game for setting material.  And if the mechanics just provide success/failure...heck, they could just strip down d20 and use that.

But, it is your game.  Good luck with it.

[hanschristianandersen]

Ryan,

Normally I'd agree with Ralph re: missed opportunities.  However...

The characters actions are what makes it funny, it's the mechanics that simply determine if their action is successful or not.

So, you're saying that as long as the characters' actions are themselves inherently humorous, then regardless of whether the funny action is successful, humor has already been accomplished.  Success or Failure is then just a matter of figuring out what happened, so that other people can react to that by doing their own funny character actions.

Hmm, okay, I might be able to buy into that.

So, how are you going to encourage and promote funny character actions?  For comparison, did Teenagers From Outer Space do anything in particular along these lines?

[Lxndr]

TFOS did have "Bonk" instead of hit/life points, which I think was one way of encouraging such things.

I'll have to wait until I get home to check the book before I can get you any others.