Martial Arts setting without technique based martial arts

[Garbanzo]

Dauntless:

Your collection of Drive traits and Focus traits reminds me of the system I'm working on (here).
It's all about the way that different cultures conceptualize and resolve the same problem differently; it's always seemed like a good match also for martial arts schools.

The gist (as written):
Two sets of attributes.  For any action, take one from column A and one from column B, and then add the skill.

Code Select Expand


Column A  | Column B
======================
Social    |  Flow
Mental    |  Focus
Physical  |  Balance
And so, the point of all this, is that if my dude is all about Flow (i.e., it's his best attribute), this doesn't just dictate his sinuous combat grace, it is also something he's going to use in other situations.  He'll maybe be a fast-talker, or mentally nimble, or whatever.
Each column is essentially an axis, making an implied 3x3 grid of attributes, with commonalities between them.  
I'm all about culures: everyone's got one and each one gives certain attribute bonuses.  Scratch cultures and put in "Schools," and you're set.


My original inspiration for all this, interestingly, was Aikido.  If making-good-fit is a habitual way you focus your energy, it becomes more than dojo practice.

For -hmm, unnamed- World of Dauntless, you'd replace my generic attributes with cooler, more martial artsy stuff.  Maybe your two axes are (Focus or Drive) and (Single-pointed-will or broad awareness).  Maybe totally different.

The main good thing I see with this is that (say you also end up with an implied 3x3 grid) it wouldn't be too hard to map Something Cool (Mushin, Zanshin, Ting Jing, whatever) to each of these 9 points.  And so you get 9 esoteric terms all bundled together in a fairly comprehensible system, with players naturally focusing on one or another as an expression of their character.

Because you're so hip to this stuff, you could easily layer on a second layer of bonuses: "Ok, Pete.  Emptiness + Force makes Wu-Wei.  This is your highest second-order attribute, so you get x and y and z, but have a penalty to a."

Crunchy goodness, depth from simplicity - surely your work is now over!  :)


-Matt

[Dauntless]

I thought maybe I should give a little more background info on both the game system and the game world just to give an impression of where I'm coming from.

For starters, the world info.

The world is a pseudo-historical fantasy world which is as yet unnamed.  The actual name of the campaign world is (so far) "Guarding the Boddhi Tree", in reference to the tree which the Buddha sat under when he finally gained enlightenment.  The world revolves around a pan-Asian setting that includes elements from all of Asia, including Japan, China, Korea, India, South East Asia, American Indians, and Pacific Islanders (but with specific focus on Japan, China and India).  There is also an element which is similar to but not exactly the same as a Western force which through mechanization and industrialization, threatens the way of the lives of these pan-asian cultures.

The technology level is roughly equivalent to our own 1850's-1900's with a little retro-tech thrown in (technology a little more advanced for its time) as well as some paranormal abilities that border on the supernatural (but in a still believable fashion....no wire-fu here).  The central theme as discussed is the threatening of a way of life, though not necessarily through conflict.  The mere introduction of technology will cause chaos in society's way of life, and the introduction of new ideas will also cause social upheaval (for example, the idea of democracy threatening a caste system).

I've decided that there are Paths, Schools, Clans, Orders, Castes and Societies which the character belongs to (if he is of pan-Asian origin).  These different orders shape what abilities the character posses, and also define what areas of knowledge he is likely to know.  The system uses a Lifepath system in order to generate this data.  The Lifepath determines the socio-economic clas (Caste, Clan and Wealth), and from this, what School, Path, Order or Society the character can belong to.  Age is determined by the player...the older the character is, the more skills he has acquired, but his physical stats will go down.  A Point Pool system is used to purchase the attributes as well as the course on the Lifepath he wishes to take.  The character is further defined by certain Perks and Flaws which help flesh out the character.

Attributes are broken into Sub-attributes, and Derived Attributes.  They are:
Primary: Sub-attributes

[*]Neuromuscular:  Force and Speed
[*]Kinesthetic: Coordination and Agility
[*]Size: Mass and Height
[*]Constitution:  Fitness and Health
[*]Endurance:  Aerobic and Anaerobic
[*]Intelligence:  Memory and Analysis
[*]Intuition:  Awareness and Creativity
[*]Charisma:  Presence and Beauty
[*]Willpower:  Focus and Discipline
[/list:u]

Psyche Traits

[*]Ego- How self-centered or humble a character is
[*]Emotion- How readily the character wears his emotions on his sleeves
[*]Empathy- How well character can relate to another, as well as sensitivity
[*]Trust-  How trusting a character is
[*]Adaptability-  How open-minded or inflexible a character is.
[/list:u]

Derived

[*]Strength = Formula still being worked on
[*]Reaction = (Speed + Awareness + Creativity + Discipline) / 4
[/list:u]

Destiny Pools (these modify your Karmic Threshold which I'll get to in a bit)

[*]Focus-Concentration
[*]Focus-Awareness
[*]Drive-Passion
[*]Drive-Discipline
[/list:u]

Perks and Flaws- Various traits which can help or hinder a character and fleshes them out more fully
Principles- Player defined set of convictions and beliefs which guide his behavior and thinking (for example, the tenets of Buddhism, Bushido, Wu Shih, Shamanist, etc).  These help determine when Drive-Passion comes into play, and also help determine when a character can suffer mental trauma.
Attachments- These are the things that matter to the character.  They can be things, people, ideology, religion.  They help determine when the Drive-Passion can be applied.  Depending on the situation, these traits can also help determine if a character suffers mental trauma.

Task Resolution in a Nutshell
There are 4 elements that are primary to resolving a task:
Control Rating = Controlling Attributes + Skill Experience (I'm currently thinking of a different mechanic, but it requires multiplication)
Karma = Control Rating + Destiny Pool
Karmic Threshold = Target Difficulty + Random Factor

If Karma >= Threshold, then the task succeeds

The Destiny Pool is a way of modifying a result depending on how much intensity, concentration, resolve and awareness a character puts forth into the task.  Using the Destiny Pool however comes with some drawbacks.  Using Focus-Concentration causes some mental fatigue as well as lowering one's defenses (which are outside of the thing the character is actually Focusing on).  Drive-Passion also lowers one's defensive rating including the focal target itself (however, it delivers two points to the Karmic Threshold instead of just one per point as Concentration does), and it too is slightly tiring.  Drive-Discipline is mentally draining but it can only be used to offset Internal Modifers (though it does not suffer from lowered defenses).  Focus-Awareness is the most powerful of the bunch because it has no drawbacks.  However, one must "enter" this state, and there's no guarantee you'll be in it.

Target Difficulty is based off of Situational Modifiers and Internal Modifiers.  Internal Modifiers are things intrinsic to the character (as opposed to the Target Difficulty which is based off the situational context of the actual task itself).  For example, a wounded character would not be at 100% efficiency.  Situational Modifiers are things external to the character, for example, being hasty (taking less time to do something) will make it harder to perform a task.

The Random Factor is determined by rolling 3d6, of which one should be colored differently as this is the Control Die, and the others are the Total Dice.  The mathematical formula is:
|Die1 - Die2| - 1 unless Die 1 = Die 2
if Die = Die2 then result is
Die Roll - 1.

For example:
{5,3} = (5-3) -1 = 1
{2,6} = (6-2) -1 = 3
{1,4} = (4-1) -1 = 2
{6,5} = (6-5) -1 = 0
{4,4} = 4 -1 = 3
{2,2} = 2 -1 = 1

The Control Die tells you whether the result is positive or negative.  1-3, it's negative, 4-6, it's positive.  This Die Mechanic creates a very strong centering around 0, and is a very steep bell curve (unlike a traditional 2d6 -7 system which whill also generate a -5 to + 5 result).
[/i]

I'm still working on the actual Martial Arts system.  So far I think I want the following elements to describe how it works:

Form-  The basis of a technique
Effect-  What the technique actually does
Implementation-  What body parts are required or weapon needed?
Theory- Going with a Yin/Yang motif (soft/hard, internal/external)

Form can be broken down into:

[*]Strike- To hit an object, usually causing damage.  Note that a block is really a different form of a strike (it has a different Purpose, but the same Principle)
[*]Control- Manipulating an opponents body, either through force, pain, or immobilization.  Can be joint locks,  throws, takedowns, pins, guards, etc
[*]Maneuver- Instead of controlling your Opponent's body, this controls your body or distancing, either to gain a better position, as avoidance, or as an escape
[*]Intercept- Used prior to (or possibly in conjunction with Control), this captures a part of the opponent's body, possibly including his mind (his spirit or will).  Includes traps, holds, grabs
[/list:u]

Effects

[*]Damage-  Does damage to a target through some means.  Damage type can vary according to implementation or location (for example a neck strike could be lethal damage while a pressure point would be momentary)
[*]Neutralize- To take away the offensive capability of one or more limbs, including weapons, either permanently (joint break for example) or temporarily (a joint lock, a block or a disarm for example)
[*]Immobilize- To stop an opponent from moving
[*]Guiding- To direct an opponent to where you want him to go (to the ground perhaps)
[*]Positioning-  The maneuver grants the most advantageous position for attack or defense (depending on what the character desires).
[/list:u]

This is all I've come up with so far, but I've got a few ideas up my sleeve.  I've been thinking about Ars Magica and how it had dynamic magic (through Techniques and Forms) or prelearned spells.  In some ways, this is what I want to do with my martial arts.  I want some predefined techniques, but I also want a spontaneous and dynamic ability.

[Garbanzo]

I'm surprised at the system you've got.

This feels like a rock-solid Universal Sim engine to me.  I'm pretty surprised - I thought the game was All About Martial Funkiness.

Frex:
I'm a good actor exactly because I have an intuitive understanding of ki.  I can project a lot of energy, which hooks the audience.  My personal magnetism, my acting chops, and my punch-through-brickness are all aspects of my huge ki (regardless of how I conceptualize it).
An approach like this would do two things: tie everything together, pointing back at the game's focus, and also show how all those cool wacked-out Eastern terms are really principles that we use every day, because they move the universe.

Instead, the system given has my acting springing from Ego and Charisma and Intuition.  A lot more generic.  
It's got a real GURPS-ish feel to me: a strong cover-all-the-bases system, with added-on bits to match the genre.

It all goes back to System Does Matter, for me.

Whaddya think?

-Matt

[Dauntless]

It's funny how you mention that the names feel a bit generic.  I too worried about that.

In fact, I was thinking of renaming some of the traits to give it a more esoteric and eastern feel.  But I held back because I do want the system to have a Universal basis.  But the game engine I'm creating has "plug-ins" which essentially are new or replacement traits to cover genre-specific elements.  Every setting will have its own LifePath system, so the system is not truly universal, because you must have a game background in order to create characters.  But every settings should work within a universally defined set of minimal attributes to work with (the one's I've listed) and can add more.

For example, I'm still trying to figure out how to work out Ki.  I'm also trying to figure out how to work out Musubi (harmony) or what the Chinese call Ting Jing (listening energy...sensitivity).  I suppose I could call them by their asian names to evoke the flavor.  The Focus-Awareness trait is really Mushin in disguise.

Cemendur and you (Garbanzo) gave me some ideas about basing things off of axes.  The I Ching (and the Taiji DU symbol) is represented by 8 trigrams, and these 8 trigrams can be combined together to create 64 patterns (an 8x8 matrix) that really stems from the combinations of Yin and Yang energy.

I'm trying to figure out how to apply this to martial arts moves with little success though.  I do think that the moves in martial arts should be covered by:

Form- What it looks like
Function- How the move is implemented
Effect- What the move does in game terms
Technique- Using martial "powers" (Ki, Musubi, Ting Jing, Ma-ai, etc)
Theory- the ebb and flow of yin and yang (for example, hard vs. soft styles, internal vs. external, nei juang vs. wei juang, irimi vs. tenkan, etc)

[Garbanzo]

Hmm.

Form, Function, Effect, Technique, Theory.  
That's a hefty list.  

As I see it, the structure of the mechanics has to set up the theory,  implementation, and effect.  The system has to present a rock-solid backdrop that makes all this crystal clear, and also fun.
Technique and Form are on the player's shoulders, the first is set up by the system, as the choices available.  The second is pure color (which comes as second nature to someone who's totally bought in to the system).

You're asking for a lot to happen.  I'm not sure a generic rules set can pull it off.  But that's just me.  The basic system sounds like something you're well invested in, so I'll leave off.

-Matt