consequences of magic

[Radecave le Scribouillard]

I've some ideas for your mechanisms.

Write two (or many) different profiles : the first one for Humans et the second one for Changelings. A general description.

Then list different Traits (eg Appearance, Smell, Diet or even Sexuality).

A human character have 5 points in each Human Traits you choose. Each time he does certain things one or two traits changes. The character looses 1 point in Human Appearance and wins 1 point in Changeling Appearance. Describe each change to the player in the narrative way.

Finally use these points in game as bonuses or penalties.

[Radecave le Scribouillard]

I give you examples.

A character with a Changeling Trait tries to ride a horse, but you've decided (as GM) horses don't like faes then the Changeling Trait gives a penalty.

The same character tries to approach a unicorn. In this case the Changeling Trait gives a bonus.

[simon_hibbs]

One option might be to use somethijng like the HeroQuest mechanics. Magicians must pitch their magical abilities against a resistance that reflects the complexity of the magic and the ammount of magical energy required to perform it. On a success the magic is effetcive with the results depending on the level of success, but on a failiure the character is afflicted with a penalty that manifests as some form of otherworldly taint.

Do you risk attempting powerful magical effect, or stick to easier relatively risk free, low powered magic?


Simon Hibbs

[Mike Holmes]

I've got a whole thread on precisely Simon's ideas over in the Hero Quest forum. This is how I do magic for my Shadow World game (in theory - in practice, I only roll when I think magic is being "abused").

Mike

[M. J. Young]

Hmmm...I guess the problem I have with Simon's suggestion is it doesn't really strike me as that different from a lot of games. Maybe it is.

In Multiverser, the difficulty, including the power level, of a magic skill is reflected in the probability of success. Obviously, the probability of failure is inversely related to the probability of success; but the chance to botch is also flexible, increasing with the probability of failure (1:10). Thus if you do something extremely difficult, you've got a fairly high chance to botch.

You would have to narrow the possibilities of what happens on a botch to reflect the desire to have it always directly and permanently impact the caster. (Multiverser botches are pretty wide open--you can destroy an entire universe, if you're really unlucky.) But it's well within the expectations of the design.

--M. J. Young

[Mike Holmes]

Is he looking for a radical design? I think just some focus could do the trick.

Mike

[Eric J.]

Agrees with Mike totally.

May the wind be always at your back,
-Pyorn

[madelf]

Okay, I haven't had a lot of time to think about this the last few days and good suggestions are piling up.
I'll try to address a few in bits and pieces.

Just to throw a thought out, what if part of the transition involves becoming inhuman in your thought processes, such that the player gradually loses control of the character?
-snip-

This has some potential up to a point. But I don't want to take away their control, but rather take away their old perception of the character. I'd love to be able to subtly influence the choices the player makes for their character, but I don't want to get to the point where I'm saying "you can't do this" or "you have to do this", or even "you feel this way". I just want them to do it, or not do it, or feel it... because that's the way they see the character going themselves.

I'm looking to somehow come up with a system that alters the player's perception of their character in a way that changes the way they play that character as the game progresses.
And I suspect that's a tall order.

I think emotional and habitual changes might be effective for this game. Perhaps adding and taking away habits as necessary.

Alien nature takes some time to nail down as humanity is about feeling human. If someone starts off relatively inhuman, then the humanity loss hits them that much lighter. Thus the reason why vampire is generally ineffective: you play a vampire who was once human rather than a human who becomes a vampire.

If the changes are too overt or quick, it's like being handed a new character sheet, losing whatever kind of character you built over time. So a slow progression would allow it to creep in.
-snip-

I'm not sure imposing emotional or habitual changes is going to work, sounds too arbitrary to me. I'd prefer to develop some sort of acquired traits sort of thing that would change the character in fundamental ways (and perhaps more importantly the way people interact with the character), and letting the player react to that as they see fit. It's going to be like walking a tight rope, I know.

Your points on the prior change being less effective is a good one. Saying at the start of the game, "Your character has messed too much with magic in the past and is now a changeling, how do your feel about that?" would be far less cool than playing out the long slow slide into inhumanity caused by the player's own actions over the course of the game.
So definitely during the game, and definitely slow.

Are you going to include magic specific changes(earth mage to rocky stuff, hermetics to bindable spirits, druids to fae, etc.) or more randomly?

My magic system will be freeform. It encompasses different styles, but is in no way defined by them. The energy fueling the spells is all the same, no matter what method is used to access it. So no matter what style or discipline you use for magic, the end results will be the same.

So, will the changes be an inevitable slide(ie. a scale that always builds up, never down), a risk(Scale goes both up and down), or punishment to those who do too much(goes down quick, but effects will remain)?

I'm still thinking this one over. I think it should be an ongoing effect. The more you use magic, the more tainted you become, as opposed to a sudden change if you botch a spell or something. I've considered including a means to "redeem" yourself and remove or lessen the taint, but I'm afraid it would take a lot of the menace out of it. Why worry about using too much magic if you can just wash off the effects?

Then list different Traits (eg Appearance, Smell, Diet or even Sexuality).

Yeah, this is about the best as I've come up with as well. A series of traits that all put together equal a changeling, and then impose these traits on the character one by one as they slide deeper into the trap of magic.

One option might be to use somethijng like the HeroQuest mechanics. Magicians must pitch their magical abilities against a resistance that reflects the complexity of the magic and the ammount of magical energy required to perform it. On a success the magic is effetcive with the results depending on the level of success, but on a failiure the character is afflicted with a penalty that manifests as some form of otherworldly taint.

This is not bad, but I think I want even the small magics to count. One large spell or a dozen small, either way it's meddling with otherworldly energies and it's going to leave a mark. A sliding scale where more powerful spells leave a bigger taint would be good.

Is he looking for a radical design? I think just some focus could do the trick.

I don't think it needs to be radical, I'm much more interested in effective. Foolproof wouldn't be bad either.
That's why I think right now I'm leaning toward the pretty simple concept of a merits/flaws system. When you reach a certain level of taint, you gain a fae trait. It might be good, it might be bad... most of the time it might depend on the situation, but whatever the case it makes you somehow different. Probably with a randomized method of deciding what the aquired trait will be, rather than letting the player choose the ones with the coolest powers.

The more I think about it the more I'm thinking that the mechanic shouldn't really have to be a lot more complicated than that. The important part will be deciding what those traits will be, and how they should affect the character, or those around them. If I can create a list of traits that when applied to a character makes him become "inhuman" then maybe the rest will follow.

Thanks all, you've given me a lot of food for thought.

[Mike Holmes]

Like was said before, just have effectivenesses be attached to the particular traits, human and fae. As the character changes, losing human effectiveness, and gaining fae, he can still do whatever he wants, but will be tempted to use the fae effectivenesses. This gives you that subtle pressure that you're looking for, without forcing anything.

For instance, if my Empathy for Humans rating becomes an Empathy for Fae, and I encounter a fae and a human both scowling from them having had a fight, I can try to make either feel better - but I'll have better success with the fae creature now, and less with the human. This may not describe the way the interaction occurs in detail, but it represents the "alien-ness" well.

Mike

[M. J. Young]

I'm looking to somehow come up with a system that alters the player's perception of their character in a way that changes the way they play that character as the game progresses.
And I suspect that's a tall order.

Multiverser's appendix on Insanity might be useful in this regard; I'll attempt to summarize key points.

In essence, rather than tell the player that his character is now crazy and he should play the part, the referee alters the description of reality such that the player's available information is colored in such a fashion that the natural reaction to what he thinks is happening is the abnormal reaction to what is really happening. For example, if your descriptions of everything and everyone he encounters are now threatening, filled with suggestions of hidden weapons and ulterior motives, the player's reasonable response will be paranoid under the "real" circumstances which are unknown to him.

It's much more difficult to do this in group play, as you would have to tailor the appearance of reality to match individual player perceptions, and that means conflicting descriptions of reality whenever the characters aren't of the same "mind"; but it is workable, particularly in your case, in which the problem is very much one of perception, and no player will know whether his version of reality is quite the truth (after all, are the humans or the fae more right about the nature of reality?).

I think right now I'm leaning toward the pretty simple concept of a merits/flaws system. When you reach a certain level of taint, you gain a fae trait. It might be good, it might be bad... most of the time it might depend on the situation, but whatever the case it makes you somehow different. Probably with a randomized method of deciding what the aquired trait will be, rather than letting the player choose the ones with the coolest powers.

I'm not sure about this one; it brings to mind one of the factions in Gamma World--it's been too long for me to put a name to it, but there was a mutant group that worshipped radiation, and whenever they had the chance they exposed themselves to it to gain new mutations. The odds seemed about even as to whether they would gain good or bad mutations, but that didn't matter--the point was to build up mutations in the character.

I can see the same thing happening with a "good and bad fae traits" system, as some players become involved in trying to build up their fae traits because it's cool to see how weird their character can be. There would have to be a significant discincentive somewhere to balance this, I think.

--M. J. Young