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Author Topic: Sticky definitions or recommended reading links, please.  (Read 13017 times)
PlotDevice
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« on: July 25, 2004, 08:52:41 PM »

Hello all.

I am a 34 year old 21 year experienced gamer and designer of games living in Sydney Australia. I have a couple of degrees in English and work in IT. I first got on to this site today.

I have been reading the various threads in this section for a bit now, and it has taken me some time to not feel completely lost. I am beginning to get an idea of the subject matter and definitions of terms finally.

To aliviate the culture shock, I would like to ask if someone could please put a sticky thread at the top of this one with:

1) Definitions of the terms being used
2) Recommended reading articles links

Thanks for listening, and warm regards,

Evan
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Evangelos (Evan) Paliatseas

"Do not meddle in the affairs of Ninjas, for they are subtle and quick to radioactively decapitate."
M. J. Young
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« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2004, 09:23:09 PM »

Welcome to the Forge, Evan.

I'm surprised that we don't have a sticky on this one, but I see that you're right. Let me point you to the ones that are most useful at this point. I recommend that if you have the time you read these in the order listed, as it will give you the historic perspective as well as the most recent improvements.

Rather than give individual links, I'll just say these are all in the articles section, linked at the top of the page here.

System Does Matter, Ron Edwards, was the introduction to the core concepts of gamism, narrativism, and simulationism, and although the theory has expanded greatly since then it's still the best place to start.

GNS and Other Matters of Role-playing Theory, Ron Edwards, was an extended and to some degree defensive presentation of the theory from several years back. It gives a lot of the peripheral matters of the theory, including the structure within which creative agenda is found, but it predates the use of "creative agenda" as a term.

Simulationism: The Right to Dream, Ron Edwards, is an update on one agendum; it's also contains the first effort at a glossary. Simulationism is still being strongly debated in terms of its nature, and is probably at this point the least settled of the three.

Gamism: Step On Up, Ron Edwards, significantly redefines the essentials of
gamist play.

Narrativism: Story Now, Ron Edwards, is probably the best presentation of the model overall at this point, in part because it is the most recent statement from Ron and in part because narrativism is the agendum he knows best.

Applied Theory, M. J. Young, I'll mention because a number of people have found it helpful in sorting out the three agenda.

The Provisional Glossary, Ron Edwards, contains many words and concepts which are in common use around here. One caution on this is that some of the definitions are still contested or in flux, and it may take a bit of time to work out which ones are agreed and which are tentative.

I should also point you to the "Infamous Five", which you should find linked from a sticky in the Site Discussion forum, five threads which Ron introduced to talk about the Forge (and quite a few that split off from these).

There will be other terms and concepts which you might want to search and ask specifically concerning their usage and meaning if they arise; things are often being refined and even introduced here.

I hope that helps.

And perhaps someone will make this a sticky?

--M. J. Young
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Ron Edwards
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« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2004, 09:25:59 PM »

Hiya,

What a nice first post! Considering that sometimes the same request is phrased rather differently by others ...

Let's see now ... all of the following are currently posted in the Articles section of the Forge (links at top of page).

The Provisional Glossary is most recent and probably the best one-stop shop at the moment.
GNS and other matters of role-playing theory was the "big essay" in which I finally wrapped my head around what I was trying to say; it was followed by three essays that tried to help other people wrap their heads around it: Simulationism: the Right to Dream, Gamism: Step On Up, and Narrativism: Story Now.
System Does Matter was the original article, way back when.

Please bear in mind that all of the above are my articles, which is to say, my voice alone. The whole of "Forge theory" includes some explicit dissent about my ideas, some frameworks or notions that are totally independent of anything I've written, and quite a lot of excellent modifications or refinements based on minor disagreements about my texts. Trying to summarize any of these is difficult, but maybe some folks can post links to help out, and you can also check out the articles by other people.

Best,
Ron
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Silmenume
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« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2004, 09:31:42 PM »

Hi Evan!

Welcome to the Forge!

Let me help you out a bit if I may.

You are correct in that there is a bit of a learning curve regarding the jargon.  Lucky for you there is a brand new, hot off the presses provisional glossary which you can find at this link.

That glossary can also be found by going to the top of the page and clicking on the Articles link which will take you to a page with a number of articles that I highly recommend.  Many of the concepts and theories are laid out and provide the necessary ground work for understanding and participating in the online debates.  You should read the following -
    [*]System Does Matter[*]GNS and Other Matters of Role-Playing Theory[*]Simulationism: The Right to Dream[*]Gamism: Step on Up[*]Narrativism: Story Now[/list:u]Take your time reading them and digesting them.  It took me a long time to wrap my mind around many of the concepts!

    Also note that at the Forge home page http://www.indie-rpgs.com there is a list of links to the various forums.  One of them, called Site Discussion does have some stickies and is a better place to ask questions like you asked here.

    I hope this has been helpful!

    edit - I cross posted with M.J. Young and Ron.  Good Luck - look forward to seeing you in the forums.
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    Jay
    PlotDevice
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    « Reply #4 on: July 25, 2004, 09:40:46 PM »

    That is very helpful! Thanks a lot everyone.

    Warm regards,
    Evan
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    Evangelos (Evan) Paliatseas

    "Do not meddle in the affairs of Ninjas, for they are subtle and quick to radioactively decapitate."
    PlotDevice
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    « Reply #5 on: July 26, 2004, 12:53:11 PM »

    Quote from: PlotDevice
    That is very helpful! Thanks a lot everyone.

    Warm regards,
    Evan


    PS Happily reading/processing now. But topic still needs a sticky for the sake of other newbies, IMHO.

    Thanks again
    Evan
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    Evangelos (Evan) Paliatseas

    "Do not meddle in the affairs of Ninjas, for they are subtle and quick to radioactively decapitate."
    Ron Edwards
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    « Reply #6 on: July 26, 2004, 04:08:20 PM »

    Loud sticky noise!!

    Best,
    Ron
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    PlotDevice
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    « Reply #7 on: July 26, 2004, 06:15:21 PM »

    Quote from: Ron Edwards
    Loud sticky noise!!

    Best,
    Ron

    He Slimed Me!
    I feel so funky...


    ________________________________
    Ghostbusters, for those who are young.
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    Evangelos (Evan) Paliatseas

    "Do not meddle in the affairs of Ninjas, for they are subtle and quick to radioactively decapitate."
    BeZurKur
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    « Reply #8 on: July 17, 2005, 07:13:56 PM »

    I cannot find the article section that is mentioned above.  I understand that the posts are nearly a year old and the site has recently been upgraded, but I've looked here and in Site Discussion, and I'm still missing it.  Could someone please direct me to where I may find the above essays?
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    - Joel Rojas
    Ron Edwards
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    « Reply #9 on: July 18, 2005, 11:27:54 AM »

    Top right hand corner of the site; "Articles."

    It is very likely that Clinton restored these links after you posted.

    Best,
    Ron
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    Selene Tan
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    « Reply #10 on: July 18, 2005, 12:50:19 PM »

    Another useful site is the RPG Theory Wiki. It contains definitions from the Provisional Glossary, as well as from John Kim's site. Many entries also link to articles or threads where the concepts have been discussed before.
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    RPG Theory Wiki
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    BeZurKur
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    « Reply #11 on: July 19, 2005, 12:25:53 PM »

    Thanks to all for pointing it out and to Clinton for his work with the site.
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    - Joel Rojas
    Justin A Hamilton
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    « Reply #12 on: August 03, 2005, 01:27:36 PM »

    This thread, along with the other "Theory 101" sort of threads, really help people like me out.

    Thanks everyone!
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