Opinion on Layout: Self or Contracted?

[GregS]

Well, we're finally getting ready to go to print and the last step, obviously, will be to lay the book out.  And after doing an exhaustive search on the Forge, I thought I'd open up for a few specific questions and solicit any new advice.

First, having looked at the resources on the site, I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions/comments/experience with any specific layout artists?  Any real world experience would be appreciated.

Secondly, what is a reasonable/average/expected amount of time for a 250-300 page book to spend in layout if contracted out?  Obviously, this will depend a lot on the given contractor, but I want to know what a reasonable expectation might be.

Thanks!

[jdagna]

First off, whether you do it yourself or go with someone else should depend primarily on two things: do you have the skills and the means to do it?  As much as it may cost to hire someone, the necessary software isn't cheap.  The full print  suite from Adobe runs about $1000, though there are obviously some much cheaper options if you can sacrifice features or integration.

I've done some layout work for other people (as well as my own books), so I can pretty confidently say that two weeks would be average turn-around time.  That assumes that you're clear on what you want and that you've provided everything necessary (borders, artwork, text, etc) and that you have at least an idea of fonts and overall look.  It could be done in less time (as little as a week), but two weeks leaves room for the inevitable revisions and such.  From me, this time estimate includes indexing and table of contents, as long as you're clear about what to index where.

If you need more work from the layout person - for example, they need to design a border, or you have lots of little graphical widgets, or they need to come up with terms for the indexing themselves - then the time would go up, depending on what's necessary.  Also, if you're not clear about what you want, you can cost everyone a lot of time and extra work.

[gruk]

For the RPG I am (slowly) writing, I'm using LaTeX as the layout engine (this means no WYSIWYG, but...). Also, since I'm not that stellar at producing graphics, it's (so far) graphics-free. However, the layout is quite pleasing to the eyes and a friend in the newspaper business (she's a subeditor) actually liked the general look.[/quote]

[John Uckele]

I think I would certainly not mass produce with a self done layout until I was sure that I had done it correctly. I'm planning on a book line (assuming my core book manages to sell), so I'll probably invest in the publishing software that I'll need to put my books together.

[andy]

Sergeant_x did the layout for BONES -- sample at www.lulu.com/BONES  . He was good and reasonably priced.

Good gaming!

Andy

[philreed]

Secondly, what is a reasonable/average/expected amount of time for a 250-300 page book to spend in layout if contracted out?  Obviously, this will depend a lot on the given contractor, but I want to know what a reasonable expectation might be.

I've done this size project for rates between $500 and $2,500 in the past. It depends on several things including:

Color?
A lot of art?
Text file format? Were style sheets used? Properly? No, really? (This is one of the biggest problems I encounter.)
Existing graphic design or a new design.
Time required. (The fastest job I've done is 160-pages in 24 hours. That demands a premium price.)

[GregS]

Thanks for all the feedback, everyone.

I'm really torn, as I own a copy of Adobe InDesign 2.0 and am pretty good with layout, so I could definately do it myself, but remain scared I'll ruin the project to save a few bucks.

Either way, I'm going to give it a lot more thought this week and reach a decision soon.  If anyone has any other pearls of wisdom, I'd love to hear it.  And for those who offered to do it, I'll be contacting you soon.

Thanks again!

[Matt Snyder]

Why not take a stab at a page template design, fill it will some blah text and may some art, then post a screen shot or PDF of it for us to critique. That way, you can really decide whether you're "pretty good" at it or will "ruin the project" (I doubt it). Go from there. I'd be happy to offer some comments.

[GregS]

Thanks, Matt.  That's a great idea!  I'll get something up in the next couple of weeks.