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275647 Posts in 27717 Topics by 4285 Members Latest Member: - Jason DAngelo Most online today: 158 - most online ever: 429 (November 03, 2007, 04:35:43 AM)
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Author Topic: [Dogs in the Vineyard] Eden's Prophet  (Read 22207 times)
lumpley
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« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2004, 07:04:37 AM »

Here is the corresponding full writeup on RPGnet.

It sounds like it's gone well so far, Judd.  I can't wait to have the whole thing to look at.

Quote from: You
It wasn't subtle but it worked.

Cool.  Subtlety is overrated.

-Vincent
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Manicrack
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« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2004, 09:56:23 AM »

Quote from: Paka
Kolja was playing Cain and I liked the character and the player but he was new to the group and the youngest to boot. I had contacted Kolja through the Burning Wheel forums because I knew he didn’t have a regular gaming group in these here parts. I think Kolja was still getting his feet under him and I drove the adventure so hard that I wasn’t giving people spotlight time and I think our newest player in the group suffered from my unrelenting pace.

Either they moved or they were left behind. I fear I left Kolja behind a bit. After the game I got the sense that he likes the way we game and wants to do so again. I think he will relax and enjoy himself more in future sessions and hopefully, he will play in a game I run in which I can ease up and enjoy a moment here and there. Nice kid and a good gamer.


Well, thank you.
I have to admit I had trouble finding my spot, but in the end(especially the exocism) I tried harder to find my spot in the whole game.
My big problem was that I didn't quiet know how to involve my chrackter while still playing out his personality(brash and irresponsible).
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The mind lies somewhere between insanity and madness.
Judd
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« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2004, 10:10:21 AM »

Quote from: Manicrack

My big problem was that I didn't quiet know how to involve my chrackter while still playing out his personality(brash and irresponsible).


The next time you sit down with us it is my hope you will feel comfortable enough to throw your character in there and not be worried that he does things that are brash and irresponsible.  

I've played in groups where if someone does something in-character and foolish, no matter who much drama and fun it creates the players get pissy.  No worries about that from us, Kolja.
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Judd
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« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2004, 09:03:37 PM »

GM’s Note:

Anadarch’s player, Aaron, is also rather new to our grou,p seeing how I’ve known Mateo and Mario for about ten years or so. I have played alongside Aaron in our weekly Riddle of Steel game for the past two weeks or so but had never GMed for him before. I am looking over this write-up and I wonder if I didn’t allow him to be first in line a bit too often. He seemed to be doing a whole lot, almost many places at once.

This could be the result of a player really rising to my pace and keeping up or it could be me being a lazy GM and letting an aggressive player be everywhere at once during a game. I don’t think Aaron was over-stepping his bounds but it is something I will watch for later.

The shootout between Anadarch and the Demon was one conflict that Anadarch lost but the Demon took more fall-out.

The final shoot-out, ending with Cain putting his knife in Josiah’s shoulder was a separate conflict that was between the Demon and the four PC’s. Mario tried to sit it out, saying that he was tending to the boy but I said that he had done all he could for now and should be there for the final showdown.

I’m not sure if we did the conflict right between 3 people. I need to re-read the rules now that I see how they basically work. Having done so, I see that we did a few things incorrectly but we all left having enjoyed how the die mechanics work. I am excited to play this game again with the rules firmly in everyone’s mind and the concept out of the way.

GM’s Note:

Dealing out their judgment is the most important part of this game and I wanted the players to make a decision. I think they don’t fully understand their power just yet. The game was running late and I was pleased with how it went.

We weren’t running conflict resolution, not understanding the back and forth of it but we’ll get it next time. I’ve re-read the book having played the game and I’ve got it now, clear as day.

It’s a great game, from the campaign shape suggested, to the conflict resolution that so beautifully displays the way conflicts escalate from words to blood and the wonderful implied world that is so rich and so danged wide open (excuse my language).

I tired to run a Deadlands game years ago in which the players were in a traveling circus and they traversed the west, going from town to town, putting on shows and helping local townsfolk. I realize now it is Dogs in the Vineyard that I wanted to be playing.

Real world epilogue: Aaron, who played Anadarch, was at his work on break and someone said, “That’s funny as hell,” and he thought a Watchdog thought. “You think Hell’s funny? Go find out!” *BANG*

It is my most sincere hope that we get to play this game again some time soon. Our schedules are all kindsa hectic. We'll see.
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lumpley
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« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2004, 07:25:37 AM »

This is great stuff.  I'm proud and grateful.  I wish I coulda been there to see exactly what you were doing, moment to moment.  The game designer's lament!

Some random questions:

1) I dig the snake demon.  How did you decide to show the demon that way?  Whose idea was it to have the demon "be" a snake?

2) Along the same lines, how did you go from (for example) this: "Alex wanted his character’s accomplishment to be that he would solve a problem with only the Bible and no violence" to this: "Your sister will stay with us having renounced her heretic ways or you will put a bullet in her brain-pan"?  That's crazy-intense good stuff.  What was the process of making the players' proposed accomplishments into concrete conflicts like?

3) Here's from your RPGnet thread:
Quote from: Judd
They decided the town needed both Benjamin Ibex I and the Steward. By the Watchdog's decree, the Steward’s daughter had to marry an Ibex boy, of the Steward's choosing to mend the breach of Eden. There were folk in Eden who were sure there was going to be righteous Watchdog bloodletting but they got none.
That's fascinating.  What did you personally think of their judgement?  Was it what you expected?

-Vincent
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Judd
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« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2004, 10:19:58 AM »

Those questions are far from random.  They're cunning questions.

Here are some answres:

Quote from: lumpley
Some random questions:

1) I dig the snake demon.  How did you decide to show the demon that way?  Whose idea was it to have the demon "be" a snake?


Mario, who played Jeremiah, said in an off-hand comment to Josiah that cussing would allow demons to slither into his mouth or something like that.  That image stayed with me and when I needed an accomplishment for Kolja's Cain, I went with Josiah getting possessed by the Serpent, a nice Old Testament demon-type.

Quote from: lumpley
2) Along the same lines, how did you go from (for example) this: "Alex wanted his character’s accomplishment to be that he would solve a problem with only the Bible and no violence" to this: "Your sister will stay with us having renounced her heretic ways or you will put a bullet in her brain-pan"?  That's crazy-intense good stuff.  What was the process of making the players' proposed accomplishments into concrete conflicts like?


I knew I wanted to set the tone with the Accomplishments, not just for the characters but for the game.  They're a great way to get to know the PC and the world.

With some of them I asked the players out loud what they thought but most of them were just off the cuff ideas.  I wanted the Accomplishments to be INTENSE.  I wanted them to be defining moments of their Watchdog training.

Quote from: lumpley
3) Here's from your RPGnet thread:
Quote from: Judd
They decided the town needed both Benjamin Ibex I and the Steward. By the Watchdog's decree, the Steward’s daughter had to marry an Ibex boy, of the Steward's choosing to mend the breach of Eden. There were folk in Eden who were sure there was going to be righteous Watchdog bloodletting but they got none.
That's fascinating.  What did you personally think of their judgement?  Was it what you expected?


I thought their judgement was a little rushed.  It was one in the morning and I had promised a game's end by midnight.  I pushed for a decision, not wanting to cut the game short before the Dogs had rendered judgement.  I think those moments are the most important in the game.  That is what the game is all about.

I was happy with their judgement and look forward to them returning to Eden later to see how it worked out.

Next time they disagree about a judgement I'll run it as a die-rolling conflict to decide who get's their way.  Luke's BW game at Gen Con turned me on die-rolling social combat.

Thanks for the great game and the communication.  Dogs in the Vineyard is keen.

I'll post the other two characters when I get the chance.
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Judd
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« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2004, 06:59:57 PM »

Below are the other two characteres from this night's game.

Looks like we'll be running a second game tomorrow as the Dogs head to New Gidea.  The game will most likely just be Cain and Jeremiah.  I'll post New Gidea as an Actual Play post of its own, let this one rest.

Thought the character sheets of the Dogs in Eden were worth posting.

Enjoy:


Name: Cain Gareth

Background: Complicated History

STATS

Acuity: 3d6

Heart: 4d6

Body: 4d6

Will: 4d6

TRAITS

2d4 Irresponsible

2d4 Brash

Quick and Agile 2d10

1d6 Tough

1d6 New and Interested in the Dogs

RELATIONSHIPS

3d6 Childhood Friends

BELONGINGS

Coat - with friends' patches

Revolver

Long knife

Horse - Equus

Consecrated Earth

Book

---------------------------

Name: Anadarch Keelson

Background: Strong History

STATS

Acuity: 4d6

Heart: 3d6

Body: 2d6

Will: 4d6

TRAITS

2d6 Quickdraw      2d8 Lucky

1d6 Good Looks     1d10 Sight of God

1d10 Outdoorsman   3d8 Hand of Righteous Fury

1d10 Hand of Light   Protect the Innocent During Intiation 1d6

RELATIONSHIPS

1d4 Lt. Hates Me

1d8 Backing of Brothers

1d8 Packmaster (natural leader)

BELONGINGS

Coat - with slots to grab pistols

Father's pistol and 2 others

Tomahawk

Good boots

Book of Life

Horse - coudn't read the horse's name on his sheet, written too small

Consecrated Earth
 
Hat
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Joshua A.C. Newman
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« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2004, 01:43:08 PM »

Quote from: Paka
Quote from: lumpley
Some random questions:

1) I dig the snake demon.  How did you decide to show the demon that way?  Whose idea was it to have the demon "be" a snake?


 I went with Josiah getting possessed by the Serpent, a nice Old Testament demon-type.


The demons in the "old" Testament are few and far between. There's Jewish demonology, but shit, dude, the Serpent in the Garden? That was the agency of GOD. That was the push toward wisdom, maturity, sexuality, and free will. Those are things the angels envy in us.

If you want a good, old-fashioned demon in Jewish style, give yourself 8 wings, gigantic stature, footprints that burn, a flaming ring for a weapon, and the face of a baby. Looking into its eyes makes you lose your faith. Then make it ride an ox under one foot and a bear under the other.

Jewish supernatural critters are weird.

Now, given the Mormonity of it all, this might not be what you're after except in the hugest circumstances, but that's how demons/angels are described in Torah.

Here's a less ancient Jewish view of demons that's relevant to Dogs.[/url]
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the glyphpress's games are Shock: Social Science Fiction and Under the Bed.

I design books like Dogs in the Vineyard and The Mountain Witch.
Judd
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« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2004, 01:51:13 PM »

I wasn't going for an Old Testament feel.  I misspoke.

Serpent imagery came out in play when one of the players, during his Accomplishments prelude, told Josiah that if he didn't watch his cussing a serpent would slip past his cuss words and into his mouth towards his soul.

I took that image and ran with it.

That is where the Serpent demon came into play.
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Joshua A.C. Newman
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« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2004, 08:18:27 PM »

Don't get me wrong: I love the image of demons as insidious, rapist-like critters. I think the symbolism is great, and I think it's particularly good that it stemmed from a player's input.
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the glyphpress's games are Shock: Social Science Fiction and Under the Bed.

I design books like Dogs in the Vineyard and The Mountain Witch.
DannyK
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« Reply #25 on: September 03, 2004, 10:55:33 PM »

I think the serpent-demon does have a very nice biblical feeling... just not a Jewish one.  After all, there's a huge tradition of Old Testament interpretation in Christianity, and it has very little to do with the Jewish approach to the Bible.  I mean, everything's different: the organization and hierarchy of the books, the body of interpretation, the approved style of interpretation.  

I'm very interesting in reshaping Dogs into a Jewish paradigm (once I get the damn book), but it's not going to be quick or simple.

Okay, enough threadjacking for one night.
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