SMS Cellphone Roleplay

[KorbanDream]

How do I begin? - First; Thanks for your pointers to my last misplaced post, (Which is the reason I'm posting here instead?).

SMS Roleplay Concepts.
Firstly, I'd like to assume that the average person reading this is, at least, in some way familiar with Steve Jackson and Ian Livingstone's numerous novels in the C-Y-O-A, (Choose Your Own Adventure), series back in the mid eighties. For those that aren't, the basic principle is; Read storyline, choose option, read more storyline, choose option based on storyline.
Also included in the games are stat variables to randomize play. Most of the game's focus is on Global Variable change as opposed to character change, this way the world as everybody see's it changes rather than multiples of the same reality...

My Games...
I've been a hobby designer for over twenty years... On one game...
Over the past year however I've slowed the process on that particular game and concentrated on building new ones. (I currently have twenty-five games in various states between beta & "commercially" ready).

Costs.
Somebody posted a question regarding costs as obviously sms messages are not free, (unless written into your tariff?), well, I've been looking into this as I wish to start in business as a sms games company... Not so good.
The cheapest I can effectively run for is £30 per player per month!!
But this way I can at least re-imburse the player at least 50% of his/her sms costs...? - (With more players the percentage repaid would naturally increase).

Any questions, just ask... Thanks, KorbanDream.

[JamesSterrett]

Er.  So, is this SMS game a MMORPG played with text messages, or?

I'm not yet clear on how it works, from your explanation.

[KorbanDream]

Er.  So, is this SMS game a MMORPG played with text messages, or?

I'm not yet clear on how it works, from your explanation.

Short answer: No.

Long answer; Yes. Same size, capacity and in-depth gaming, but not online in terms of the net.
The gameplay is run through a series of options with each sms having a short storyline with several possible outcomes. The character stats impose limitations to produce an unlimited number of variations of the original story... Are you with me? - ie; your stats and another players stats would be different, meaning you could do more with what you got if what you got is greater than theirs?!

In the big game, Universe, a particular stat hides locations from the character's view meaning unless you're at a particular level, you can't reach it... Also, if you destroy a location, (Which is very possible), another player who's in the same location end's up dead?! - (Which ain't too nice but ?) and further players would only know the location as a place in history...

Hope that helped... KorbanDream.

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

KorbanDream, it might help if you assumed that very few of us, if any, have any idea at all about what you're talking about. But I at least, and I'm sure lots of others, want to learn. However, you're going to have to explain it as if we were rather slow, and as if we had a language barrier.

First of all, I have no idea what "SMS" stands for. Furthermore, I have no idea what the person engaged in this sort of activity even looks like - is he or she using a cell phone? A computer screen? A palm pilot? Or nothing?

Really, I'm that ignorant. You'll have to start way at the beginning.

Second, is this activity actually occurring in the world? People do this? When did it start, and how many people seem to be involved in your immediate experience? Or is this game something that you are developing, or in fact inventing?

Third, what sort of "role-playing" are we talking about? From your description, it sounds as if it's similar to computer RPGs with multiple users or maybe MUDs. But I could be very wrong about that, especially since I barely understand the differences among the current computer-interface RPGs anyway.

So help me out. Pretend I'm friendly, interested, but (sadly) not very bright or world-wise.

Best,
Ron

[Merten]

First of all, I have no idea what "SMS" stands for. Furthermore, I have no idea what the person engaged in this sort of activity even looks like - is he or she using a cell phone? A computer screen? A palm pilot? Or nothing?

"SMS" indeed stands for text-messages sent from mobile phones using the European GSM-network. The length of SMS-message is 160 characters and they can be send from phone to phone or from phone to some kind of service.

I'd imagine that KorbanDream is talking about a kind of game where the service sends an SMS-message describing a situtation or place or something and possible responses. The player then sends back the response (like GO WEST) to which the service reacts. I wouldn't know exactly, though.

There were games like that in developement around here around the time of mobile-boom, few years ago. They were using the WAP-protocol, though, which is a kind of limited browser-protocol operating from the cellphone. A kind of similar thing, but with slightly more place for text (160 is awfully small amount) and with a point-to-point connection instead of sending messages.

Hope this helps.

[KorbanDream]

First: Merten is nearly spot on with his version of events. (Yes 160 Characters is DAMN small but makes for very defining storylines and no space for tangents which are unneccessary (always a bonus?).
You can buy sms, (sms is Cellphone Paging to all those the other side of the Atlantic Ocean :-) ), servers for a few hundred sterling which automate the tasks by "Reading" the incoming message body, ie; 'Go West' would generate a send message response (Whoops Tangent?)...

Second: Well the concept is actually a third generation version of play by mail, (Snail mail), e-mail etc... I guess you would call it "Re-inventing an old concept?". WAP & sms rpg's do occur in the uk but they are more of the virtual pet variety than rpg's...?

Merten - I refuse to even look at WAP as even with GPRS connection an average scenario could end up costing £50? (@ £0.01p /Kb. Kb=About 1 page...?). (Thanks for your help btw).

Third: Um, difficult one this, I would probably have to say that I have most sincerely cannibalized most forms of rpg on a what fits best method?
I've kinda crossed the boundry between true rpg, ie; D&D and pc based "Adventure rpg's" (Mainly to make the game fit evenly into the sms format).

Except for one game, Universe. This is a true exception.
I've built it from scratch and is what I call a Life Management Game.
You have a Character and you must keep him/her alive. I call it Life Management because of the available scope of what you can do and where you can go... 163'000'000 places to visit within the first map alone?
It's staged five thousand years from now and the map is the same as the name's game, a universe... All designed with the sms format in mind.

Also to answer your second question; Is anyone doing this kind of thing now? - My answer is yes but not on this scale, companies will not employ people to become "Human Servers" so, I want to set up my own company in sms games and become the first "Human Server".

The difference I want to make to the mobile games industry is that by keeping the human element I can make the games more alive by factoring my own answer if the player's arguement is valid, ie; player wants to climb a wall that hasn't been scripted for in the game.
If the game's on a server, the player just would NOT be allowed but with the human element, I can say that the height of the wall is XX meters tall and so based on your endurance stat plus your strength stat etc, etc, etc...
(It's stops missed opportunities to broaden the game as well)...

I hope this helps but just ask if it doesn't...? - KorbanDream.

[M. J. Young]

O.K., I'm going to make a stab at deciphering this.

I have a device, maybe a cell phone with an LCD text screen, maybe one of those pager messaging gadgets that send and receive text messages only. I want to play a game on it. Among my options are games that I can in essence play remotely.

Currently such games exist (I'm accepting this as what you meant) on a limited basis, in which I am sending messages to a computer which is analyzing my input and sending a response. It's thus a text-based computer RPG akin to those old Commodore interactive text games, except that I'm dealing with a remote computer via a hand-held communications device. More generally, it's a computer role playing game. The computer describes a situation and I offer an action, and it describes how my action alters the situation.

If we assume (as I believe) that such computer role playing games originally developed to emulate real role playing games, making it possible to play without the group, what you're trying to do is reverse that development but keep the technological link in the middle, such that when someone sends a text message they'll get not a computer but a person who can assess their input and provide a change in situation that's appropriate to that input. The computer would still be present as something of a referee's aid, recording current situation and past actions so that the referee can assess the response, but the game would be played between the various individual players and the live referee.

I'm also guessing that there would be no interaction between various messaging clients; each would interact with the referee as if he were the only player in the designed world.

It thus shares many features with Internet Play by Post (forum game) play or Play by E-mail play, in which the character player writes his move and the referee responds with his move. The differences would be, primarily:

[*]All play would be one-on-one; the actions of other players would never impact this game.[*]The message system allows the player to continue the game at any time in any place, and so demands that the referee be available constantly to respond, rather than responding when he has the time.[*]The involvement of the computer would enable much of play to be automated, including much of setting and situation along with standard responses to standard actions within it, which reduces the burden on the referee to handling those messages that are flagged as outside the computer's program.[*]The computer involvement also makes it possible to rotate referees rather randomly (relative to the player), as the world and most of the situations are already present in the computer, so the referee's primary (possibly only) function is to adjudicate declared actions which are outside the computer's parameters; thus no individual referee needs to fully understand the continuity of play, as long as the system is able to provide easy access to anything the player has done before that might be relevant (e.g., the player trying to "climb the wall" has in the past "scaled a cliff" and "shimmied up a tree"; can the system recognize that this is relevant information for the referee in adjudicating whether "climb the wall" is possible?).[/list:u]
Have I got it?

--M. J. Young

[KorbanDream]

Spot on...! - But for one small detail.

I'm also guessing that there would be no interaction between various messaging clients; each would interact with the referee as if he were the only player in the designed world.
--M. J. Young

That's where my "Human Server" idea kicks in. By keeping a single reality EVERYONE is affected by everyone else! - Communication between two other players would run through me (Thus making it a bit long winded but ?) and so would each of their circumstances, ie; you blow up a building that just happens to have another player in it, that player takes damage accordingly...(Maybe even dies from it?) That way every action of every player has in some small way a serious impact on the game, even without trying? - (While beta testing one of the players died in an accident and became a part of that game's history...?!).

BTW; I don't intend to use a computer at all, the equipment I intend to use to set this all up is nothing more than a mobile phone, palm handheld and a laptop for archiving...(Use what the players are, know how they feel)... I want every element to be human driven otherwise it's just another server game?


...(Now why didn't I say it like that in the first place...?).

[Rob Carriere]

One minor point for the Americans trying to picture what on Earth this looks like: There are two ways to get an SMS message out into the world,

1. From an ISDN of GSM phone, or
2. Using SMS server software on a computer.

Case 1 would be the common one. Here you are typing in the text of the message using your phone's keypad. In other words, 887733323 spells URDEAD. As the example indicates, there's a premium on abbreviations in this medium :-)

On most phones, the display will show the currently selected letters as you type. So, the example above, the first few displays would read

t
u
up
ur
urd

etc...

The system is wildly popular among teenagers as it's a lot cheaper than an actual voice call (voice calls using GSM are always long distance and at a steeper rate than "regular" phone long distance calls). I'm putting regular in quotes because in most of Europe GSM has a market penetration deep in the 90% and quite a number of people are actually dropping their "regular" phone in favor of the GSM.

S "77-777-444-1-444-66-1-999-666-88-77-1-8-44-88-6-22" R
--

[Tobias]

Before you read the rest of my post, I'll warn you - I am extremely sceptical about this. I will tell you why - because I cannot see any advantage to this type of play to either you or the users at the other end that isn't outweighed by the difficulties.

However, that might be due to some misconceptions on my end, which I'll try to clear up by asking some questions, if that's ok by you.

1.) How many players would there be?
2.) Would play be at scheduled times, or 24hrs?
3.) Would play be sequential or simultaneous?
4.) Does the software/hardware include a database?

(You mention not using a computer at all, but a mobile phone, a palm and a laptop for archiving. I find that extremely unclear, but will assume you mean that there is no active computer processing input between you and player (thus allowing a laptop for archiving - but archiving what? will you need to type stuff out?). Note: in my view, a palm is also a computer - so I'm not sure what it would add, compared to the mobile phone).

5.) What kind of messages would you send? Could you give a short example of play, chopped up in 160-character messages?
6.) How are you going to keep 163'000'000 places on the first map alone in mind, while 'I want every element to be human driven otherwise it's just another server game?'

I'll start with those questions. I have more, but maybe many of them will be answered with these first 6.

[Christopher Weeks]

I'm with Tobias on the skeptical but unclear end of things.

On the other hand, I think it's an exciting opportunity for a game that sounds much more automated than what I think is being discussed and moderated (for constant expansion of the engine and world) by human beings.  And I bet there's a serious profit potential.

I'm imagining a bunch of places in a MUD-like game where a bunch of activities can be performed by characters and there's also a system for handling unknown actions.  That system shunts the request to the queue for the current set of referee-admin-programmer types who will make a decision about the action, then potentially improve the game to include that kind of action by plugging the text of the request into the pre-architected tools.

I'm also psyched about the idea of extending this kind of game with a VXML gateway to avoid the monsterous typing on a phone hassle and just running the game through voice telephony channels, or at least having that as an option.  I used to have an extension at Tellme.com that would read MSRP (and some other data) for any LEGO set back to you if you spoke the set's number (or typed it on the keypad) into the system.  It was a simple DB lookup program to help make buying decisions while shopping clearance aisles, but the opportunity for very sophisticated stuff is there.

Chris

[KorbanDream]

1.) How many players would there be?
2.) Would play be at scheduled times, or 24hrs?
3.) Would play be sequential or simultaneous?
4.) Does the software/hardware include a database?

Answers are, in order;

1.) Well. I've planned for around 500 or so but technically as many as my network provider can handle...? - Each game has been designed with the ability to hold thousands at a time so...?

2.) I've thought very hard about this; I'm not too keen on getting messages at 2, 3 or 4 am so I've decided to run it over scheduling, four per day, monday thru friday. I've called it an update system.

3.) I'm a little unclear on this one? - I'm assuming you mean will players take turns in their actions or will everyone be bombing me at once?
Well. Depending on the game, action will be simultaneous, (Bombing all at once!), but the reply is more scheduled, (The order in which I reply to is the order I receive them in)...

4.) There is no Hardware/Software to speak of, just a mobile phone and something called a Basepack which is your character sheet and Inventory.

btw: Palm's have the ability to send, receive and store sms messages, either via infra-red or bluetooth to a mobile phone, they also have a wonderful collection of database programs allowing me to organise the storylines of the games.
The laptop will store old sms, ie; 10Gb hard drive equals roughly thirty years (I said roughly! :-) ), sms storage or there abouts...?

5.) Example of play.
The closest I can think of is text-based adventures like, Hitch Hikers guide to the Galaxy style...Except without the rather expensive, (in this case) and sometimes pointless command system, (0.10 GBP to say "Go West" is a little over the top). Most of my games have a form of menu system which at each location gives you all unhidden locations, ie; Universe has Tradeports, (Universe is set in space), the menu system would highlight the key locations like; Bar, trade counter etc and avoiding the drivel...
Once at sub-locations, the menu system zooms in accordingly.
Also, I should just point out that the systems used reward long term players unfortunately? - If you know where you want to go, the address, (unless destroyed by circumstance), is static and will always be the same?
Universe Example: The bar, (Deck 2, Room 15), in Tradeport 013 in the Epsilon Sector of the Delfina would be ((DFA032)-Optional) EPS083TRP013D03R15
This way, if you know where you're going, you type the address and the storyline, (ie me), calculates how long it would take to get there from your present location, ask for confirmation and then set the journey planner in motion...

6.) The game Universe is nearly twenty years in the making, I've built some element of it every day of my life since I was around seven and I know the majority of it (all 163 million), almost backwards, (That and the immediate area that you start in only has 13'996 places with a limiter scenario to slow the rate of escape from that area :p)...

Whew! - (Breathing in, deeply?!)

Christopher Weeks.
Hi. There is no server, voip, mainframe or anything. I'm using a palm to hold the most frequently used content messages, a nokia to send and receive the messages and a laptop to store the old messages/data, the rest is all in my head, where it started from.
As for profit potential, well, I'd love to say loads but as it turns out I'm gonna be ending up with seriously less than planned...?! :-(

[Marco]

I'm unclear too.

Are you gonna respond to 500 people txt msging you at once by manually typing replies to them?

Are the response menus stored somewhere (on your palm?)

I'm clearly missing something here.
-Marco

[KorbanDream]

Are you gonna respond to 500 people txt msging you at once by manually typing replies to them?

Are the response menus stored somewhere (on your palm?)
-Marco

Short answer: Yes - On the palm using one of several palm database applications.

Long Answer: Yes most definitely!
Palm's messaging program has an inbox with folder management similar to Outlook Express. I can store relevant data on the palm using memory cards for additional storage space as required, (In theory, infinite?).

500 people sending a text message at once to an ordinary phone would if not kill the server, kill my phone, (RAM issues?), but the phone also has the same ability, (inbox, file & folder management and memory card expansion), with two to four hours between my sending schedule and ninety percent of all messages just being a matter of cut and paste, the remaining ten percent being 'Option Other...?' as I call it, I've worked out I can handle approx 200 per hour!
The other bonus of both phone and palm combination is that instead of sending as I go, there is a unique ability to send outbox, similar in nature to dial-up email accounts, called Connect & Send which literally throws the entire contents of the outbox at the server and everyone receives their update around the same time...!

PS - Tobias: I greatly welcome skeptical behaviour, it keeps me on my toes and stops me becoming lazy. I enjoy as much as loathe somebody saying "But that's like...(Insert game X here?)", it keeps me and my games fresh, (and later will prevent heavy solicitor fees Ha! Ha! :-/).

[Merten]

500 people sending a text message at once to an ordinary phone would if not kill the server, kill my phone, (RAM issues?), but the phone also has the same ability, (inbox, file & folder management and memory card expansion), with two to four hours between my sending schedule and ninety percent of all messages just being a matter of cut and paste, the remaining ten percent being 'Option Other...?' as I call it, I've worked out I can handle approx 200 per hour!

With a mobile phone and Palm, I very, very much doubt that you'll run into some difficulties sooner or later. Typing, even with functional keyboard, is hell, let alone if you don't plan to force some kind of command set for the players to use (Like GO (direction), USE (item)). Which, of course, would greatly limit the player options. Some kind of server application which could handle the most basic requests like moving around, would sound like  a sensible approach. Are you planning to use some kind of automated parser/answer mechanism for such commands?

Also, 160 characters is a very, very short amount of text, especially if you're trying to communicate something else than bare fundamentals ("Room. Three doors, East, West, North. Angry bartender. Want a beer?"). I'd think that character-to-character communication is also a bit of a challenge?

Marketing an SMS-based game which lacks the (arguably unnecessary) buzzwords like graphics and multimedia-messages, might also be hard. Not to mention the cost of SMS's for both the server and the players - if moving around costs something like 10 cents (in Euro scale)  per message (I really have no idea how much SMS's cost in UK) per movement, it'll end up to be quite expensive for the player. Unless the game has really slow pace.

I might be wrong, though. It's been several years since I had anything to do with the area, work-wise.