SMS Cellphone Roleplay

[erithromycin]

Now it starts to get fascinating.

What's in this book? (the basepack, neh?) 26 A5 pages is quite a lot of text, so is this where the 'background' is contained?

I think that Doug's idea of a limited set of actions with the option for a 'special' is certainly a good one - one thing that you might want to consider is formulating a 'language' of action for more basic things - "visit customs declare cargo - visit dockside bars enquire about contraband" and, as suggested, 'specials' for more complex stuff - "see what rumours I can start about the presence of an untapped ore asteroid in the belt near the station".

This notion of the game as one where the focus is on resource management is made even more interesting by the constraints of the medium of communication - in addition to money, time seems valuable - setting things up such that 'special' actions force you to take more time over something is one approach, but there are other questions, such as management of idle time - you're not always going to get responses in favourable windows, so you'll need a way to manage those.

Further to that, incorporating a trading element means that you could, should you so desire, actually run a sort of parallel commodities market, with updates arriving every morning - local demand and such like. Of course, by this point, you're basically running a text-based version of Elite, and, well, I'd play.

[KorbanDream]

Now it starts to get fascinating.

I think that Doug's idea of a limited set of actions with the option for a 'special' is certainly a good one - one thing that you might want to consider is formulating a 'language' of action for more basic things

There are several elemental languages already devised, the two most important are the Address locator system which as I already stated is used to simplify travel and navigation, the other which can be used in all games, server based or otherwise, known as the ITEC system, which stands for If Then Else Cheat System - A simple but almost programming language that's similar to using excel...

ie; ITEC(IF=CASH(<=10000),THEN=CASH(+10000),ELSE='X'))

The above is an example of using the ITEC to always make sure you have at least ten grand in your character's account is just one example...?

The other lesser based 'languages are the mini-mod systems I have, which allow you to automate the processes of the more mundane elements such as;

MOD=TRADE
ITEM=Shunt Valves
BUY=0/135
(SELL=140//)
MAX=20

You would use the above to automate the process of buying shunt valves automatically, (and ingame there's actually a system onboard your craft that does this...?), The maximum price you have set is any figure between 0Crs and 135Crs. The optional sell command would automate the sales procedure to only sell if the buyer was offering over 140Crs and the maximum tonnage you would buy would be 20 Tons...


Maybe I should have informed you all about the AMS's as it may have changed your opinions a little but I'm new here, I've devoted twenty years of my life to this game and I'm just a little nervous and paranoid about dumping the majority of my ideas on complete strangers...

I apologise for my secrecy.

...incorporating a trading element means that you could, should you so desire, actually run a sort of parallel commodities market, with updates arriving every morning - local demand and such like. Of course, by this point, you're basically running a text-based version of Elite, and, well, I'd play.

I'm glad someone brought this up actually. As a player you can, if you so desire, run, own and maintain an entire planet, (if you wish?), it has not been unknown for someone to just spend days running the bookies ingame, The CSI Exchange, (Corporation Share Index) is such a system.

BTW; I used to play Elite, in fact, I've played all Five versions of the game, (Original, Elite II, Elite Frontier, X-BTF and X2:The Threat), and as much as I hate to admit it, I think Universe is a little more than influenced by the Elite Theorum...

I hope this changes your views...

[Ron Edwards]

Hi there,

I'd like to step in and make a point about this thread.

It's not about whether anyone approves of this kind of game or whether anyone would play it. It's about receiving an explanation and understanding it.

I'm reading a lot of posts that concern "that won't work because." Folks, this guy says it can work. He may be wrong, he may be right, and the fact is that we don't know shit about what can or can't work, at this level. New technologies = new possibilities. He's not here to get our input about that.

Instead, we're here to learn what he's proposing.

I do have a question, though: KorbanDream, I asked earlier, are people actually playing this game, even as we speak? Is Universe up and running, or is it currently a set of designs and ideas that exist mainly on your hard drive?

I hope all of you can see that the answer to this question is significant.

Best,
Ron

[KorbanDream]

I do have a question, though: KorbanDream, I asked earlier, are people actually playing this game, even as we speak? Is Universe up and running, or is it currently a set of designs and ideas that exist mainly on your hard drive?

Well, unfortunately I had to move and so closed it down but...

I HAVE had the game running with real live players, by answering manually to each message and it seemed to be running fine even without the majority of the mods I have today?

The largest gathering I've ever had play was over fifty when I knew a huge amount of people from college? - I've since moved to a new town and lost contact with them for one reason or another...?


Thanks for the help Ron, I came quite close to that bonfire I was talking about earlier... ;-) - Seriously, I'm glad you've all said things the way you did, (If I didn't I wouldn't have posted as much?)...
Technically, the comments are a little too valid for my liking because since I last played a live game, there was no BasePack because I hadn't invented it then? That and at least the majority of the mods hadn't been introduced to the game...

(You could almost call it a different game...?)

BUT: If someone said right this second; " Where'd I sign up to play? ", I'd have several kinds of hell letting them because although the game itself has been more than ready for years, the business side of earning any money from it isn't, I have a bank account and no real defined way of getting their cash from their account into mine, (as yet?!).

The answer to: "Can I play... Now!" would have to be;

- Yes, if you don't mind playing for free...?

[Tobias]

Ron - I can see where your question on existing play/players is significant.

As to my statements of approval/disapproval - I only make them so Korban knows where I am coming from. I wouldn't want the result to be anything similar 'but I incorporated all these cool changes, tons of hard work, spent hours explaining this to people - and still no-one will play it'.

I think I am here to try to learn something of his proposal. In fact, I do know (a bit of) shit about what can or cannot work, in this case. And I do think he's also here to get a bit of input on that - but that might just be me.  At least, I hope my replies haven't hurt.

Oh, and Korban, we crossposted back there - thanks for that explanation.

edit: oh, and I really like the real-time element(s), trading, for example. It's a good way to keep players 'hooked', I guess. Korban, do you actually show more of the Global Values?

[KorbanDream]

Now it starts to get fascinating.

What's in this book? (the basepack, neh?) 26 A5 pages is quite a lot of text, so is this where the 'background' is contained?

Right - The BasePack.

The BasePack is a stat inventory management tool I created to help the player's manage their life, really that simple...? - I wish?!

(Any idea how hard it is to organise a non-specific life into order?)

The following are a list of what's actually in it...

00 - The Delfinian Calendar. - 96 Hours to a standard day.
01 - MediaClip Reports. - In case you have a news story worth reporting?
02 - SDS Firearms License - Weaponry stat inventory.
03 - CSI Exchange Portfolio. - Stock Market management.
04 - MoCon Terminal. - Your Access to the TRAIDCOM, far future offspring of the internet...
05 - MoCon Program Inventory - Program manifest for the MoCon.
06 - ProBot Script - A feature of the TRAIDCOM.
07 - FEBS Suit - False Environment Biometric Survival Suit stat inventory.
08 - CAES Record - Character Analysis and Evaluation Stereotype, your character's main datasheet - used similarly to a CV or Resume...
09 - PZC Clearance - Political Zoning & Customs, who's unhappy with you?!
10 - Paldex Manalog - Data object store inventory.
(The Paldex is a computer that's been surgically grafted onto your forearm)...
11 - Storesuit Inventory. A special suit worn over the FEBS, full of pockets to enable your character to carry stuff...
12 - Contacts Manalog - Encounter management, these people could end up getting you a job or save your life...?
13 - Occupational Details - Career management because it does get confusing...?
14 - CSEM Manalog - An overview of your craft's abilities, similar to the CAES Record but for your character's craft...
(CSEM = Craft Systems Evaluation Monitor)
15 - CSDR Manalog - Craft Systems Damage Report, nuff said?
16 - Cargo Bay Manalog - Cargo Inventory Management.
17 - Current Rating - Now almost obsolete due to the serious lack of use I get from it? - It used to determine player ability but seeing as there's really no real winners in the game, (surviving means you're winning?), I'm not sure just how much longer this'll remain?

The rest of the contents is game information, corporations, craft, places to visit and career types etc...

Well, that's what the BasePack is but I have to be honest, I'm one of only about twenty people that have ever used one? - Glowing reports from the onset mind you...?

On top of this there's also location guides, firearm and craft showcase booklets and countless others... I think I've even got one book, (Book= 30 pages approx), just for ingame designer clothing...Somewhere?

Enjoy...

PS - Tobias:

Erm? - Global values ingame report only one planet's list/contents/happenings etc, but if you're referring to the average pricing guide which details the clusterial average purchase/sale price of each item, (Oh, the APG also details the clusterial legality of the items as some sectors illegalise certain items more than others), then yes I have that feature, (and quite frankly, wouldn't dare not include it), but costs the player to view it per item as the values change every 48 Hours so you have to be quick! ;-)

[Tobias]

Incidently, I'd love to discuss ANY approach to an alternative medium... As I've been calling this an rpg for years but I've always felt that it's not really an rpg, I mean just because a game has character management, stats and a voiceover doesn't automatically make it an rpg right?

So with medium, you mean alternative labels that might fit this game, right? Sorry if this question seems redundant.

[KorbanDream]

Different Medium - The only reason I said that was because this isn't a true roleplay game. You can't really sit round a table with a group of friends, your BasePack and your mobiles and still call it roleplay in the traditional sense...?

Saying that, I did get a report of seven people having regular get-togethers at each other's houses to plan a meet on Ganymede Three?



Incidently, maybe there's a question you could all answer: Synchronicity.

For a long time I've been arguing with myself over this. It basically comes down to three types of Sync.

1) - A universal timeline and everyone follow's one clock.
2) - A personal timeline that is only de-synced when you travel using Conflux, (great for time distortion scenarios, real P.I.T.A. when two people wanna meet?).
3) - Conflux travel still de-syncs the player but when out of Conflux, players revert back to a universal clock.

Theory 3 is my preferred type because it can at least explain why when people meet up one's late, (because they're still travelling to the destination...).

Any thought's on this...?

[Doug Ruff]

Ron - guilty as charged, I gave a critique where one wasn't needed.

Korban - Apologies for the above, I had no idea that the project was this far into development. Although SMS wouldn't be my preferred technology for a game like this, it's a remarkable achievement nonetheless.

I am now doubly intigued as to how you actually manage to deliver this. As you have had players in the past, I'm hoping it wouldn't be a breach of your commercial confidence to ask you to post an example of an actual play submission and your response?

If you could also describe how you got from one to the other, that would be great - I'm not asking for details of the inner workings of your system, just an overview of the 'steps' taken in between.

Regards,

Doug

[KorbanDream]

Korban - Apologies for the above, I had no idea that the project was this far into development. Although SMS wouldn't be my preferred technology for a game like this, it's a remarkable achievement nonetheless.

Firstly Don't mention it. I like criticism as it keeps my ideas fresh and kicks the bullshit into the trash can where it belongs... ;-)

I'm hoping it wouldn't be a breach of your commercial confidence to ask you to post an example of an actual play submission and your response?

Erm? - This could be hard as most of the sms's from the past are either buried in a suitcase in Margate, (I think? they are stored in my Grandparent's garage?), or have been deleted to make way for new elements as my laptop only has 10 Gb, (and WinXP took 5Gb of that?)... But if you'd like a run-through I'm sure I can deal something? --> How about a game?

If you could also describe how you got from one to the other, that would be great - I'm not asking for details of the inner workings of your system, just an overview of the 'steps' taken in between.

(Again?) Erm? - Sorry I can't figure out this bit?
(How I got from one to the other what?) - I assume you mean platform/medium?

I started the universe out as a garden variety table-top rpg back in the days of my Cyberpunk GM'ing, (Circa 1990 - 1994).
During one game with a group of friends, a player couldn't make the location due to a broken leg (Rugby game?) but sent his character's moves by text message and it just seemed to work so damn well that I gave it more thought... The rest you know about...

[Doug Ruff]

Regrets, I can't play right now - I have a real tough week at work and several other personal projects to juggle.

For now, I would like to see an example of an SMS'turn' that could have been sent in game (doesn't have to be an actual message, just one that could have been sent) and a description of how this was 'handled' and turned into an SMS response back to the player.

For example: Player sends "I go west to the bazaar and sell my loot. I buy X, Y and Z and ask for any jobs transporting cargo. I take the best paying legal offer and head out. I will not start a conflict en route but will defend myself if attacked."

(I know this is too long for a real post, it's just an example.)

Would this be avalid post, or would the player have to be more specific? How would the GM (you) resolve actions, make changes to the gameworld, and reply to the player with the results of the actions?

Regards,

Doug

PS If it would be possible to play a few turns by Instant Messenger over the net, I could be interested in this, but it would have to be next week. Unless someone else is interested and wants to take up the challenge?

[KorbanDream]

How would the GM (you) resolve actions, make changes to the gameworld, and reply to the player with the results of the actions?

Hypothetical Scenario - Player intentionally causes an Envocon Lockdown...

Player requests docking clearance in previous message...

=====================
[Mod XYZ]
Welcome to ATD213.
Atmecs depart every 20 mns
Access granted to:
01: Arrivals
02: Departures
03: PZC Customs
04: Trades
05: Other...?
=====================

(Player has a choice of paths here, in fact too many to bother with them all but for argument's sake he/she want's to get this over with and uses the quick approach and decides he/she wants to get noticed fast...).

(Player Chooses Option 03: PZC Customs.)

Background: PZC, Political Zoning and Clearance Customs own the NAVCAL system which when raised increases the number of locations your craft's onboard navigation system can 'see' and thus when lowered decreases the number... (Outcast status is when you've hit zero and you can't 'see' any btw). In turn, PZC Customs are owned by C.A.P.A. - Civillian Aid, Protection and Authority, an organizational body similar to a combination of the local council and the police...
(Incidently, PZC Customs help patrol Envocons and keep the more villianous types out hence the name Customs, oh and generally they're pretty much well armed!).

======================
You arrive at PZC Customs.
There are 03 Sentients here.
Your options are:
01: Leave?
02: Other...?
======================

There's usually only one reason why you'd end up at PZC Customs and that's cause you got caught! - Besides that, you might be silly enough to actually want to declare your cargo, (Contraband or otherwise?), or your presence if they're looking for you but generally people avoid Customs officals 'up there' as much as they do here...? - It is for this reason I have and always will leave it with just two options, leave is for a last chance to escape before all kinds of hell hit the fan? and option two is to make it absolutely certain that it was the player who wanted to continue as there's quite a high mortality rate from winding up a PZC...!?

Let's say, for example, the player decides he/she does want to continue and chooses Option: Other...? - (Lord knows why?) - And sends...

================
INV=Juiget Mk8.        - This bit means take item from inventory.
USE=Juiget Mk8.        - This means he/she wants to use the item now
AIM+RAND=Fire        - This bit means aim at a random target and fire
USE=DROP                - This bit means drop whatever's being used.
================

The bit above assumes that the Juiget Mk8 Firearm is the only weapon in their inventory? - Most movement based play, especially human to human combat is played in simultaneous ten second rounds, ie; both combatants start roughly the same time once the EMP (Emotive Perception) stat has been calculated. btw: All weaponry/combat items have a time stat which is the amount of time required to use it, ie: the above would take just short of 7 seconds, (6.50 Seconds = 1.5 Secs to take weapon from inventory, 0.5 Secs to use the weapon, ie put it in your hand, 2.0 secs to point it in a random direction and pull the trigger and 1.5 secs to drop the weapon from the firing stance)... Too far a tangent again... Sorry?

As with any authoritative body, the PZC are well trained and although the outcome would differ depending upon the character's stats, career type, etc, the most likely outcome from the above would be;

==================
Upon hearing the discharge, a PZC official fires a stunez, while another hits the alarm. You wake to find yourself in a detention cell awaiting your sentence...
==================

At this point, time for the player who caused the guard to hit the alarm would have stopped because he/she is currently 'sleeping like a baby'.
However for the next two hours (game time), anyone attempting to dock at Atmec Dock 213 would be denied due to a lockdown.

In case you're wondering, the basepack has details of what's legal and what isn't and taking a firearm onto ANY Envocon isn't legal...!


NEXT =
==================
A PZC Offical marches in and informs you of your charge. GUILTY is the verdict.
==================
THEN =
==================
Three days later you are taken to CKZ103 to begin your six month sentence. Your crime; Discharging a Firearm in an Envocon.
==================

This is a rough guide as to how an example runs and just because your character's butt has been hauled off to jail doesn't mean it's game over, just the start of yet another scenario, maybe s/he'll try to make a break or discover something interesting happening inside Correckz 103 while completing his/her sentence... And so on...

This is about as close as I can do without a character, up and running BasePack, reason for this happening etc... Hope it clears any issues...?

Blegh?! - My wrists hurt now?!

[erithromycin]

Okay, I think I've got a picture of how this is meant to be working. I didn't want to come across as harshing* on you, I was just intensely curious about the logistics of running this and the requirements of play.

I've done 'wishlist' downtime stuff before, and like every single British person on the internet between the ages of 35 and 20 have played Fighting Fantasy books or those of that ilk, and I was curious about which your SMS roleplay would sit closer to.

From what I've seen, it's a little closer to the latter, and, ignoring all technology issues, I've a question about time, and immediacy - the great thing about CYOA is that you got results as soon as you turned a page. In the example you gave, that's five turns, isn't it?

I think, since this is theory, that you're pushing the envelope as regards handling time - were I to play this I'd want the result of 1/4 of the actions that I could take in a day of gaming to be slightly more than walking down a corridor.

What I think I'm getting at is that I'm not sure that this level of granularity of action/choice in a situation is anything other than disadvantageous given the spacing of response.

I do not doubt your ability to accomplish the task that you have set yourself here in making the game happen - what I am worried about is how much fun it will be, or indeed, how willing people will be to balance attention and effort for what may emerge as relatively trivial actions.

In which case it seems that I'm encouraging broader strokes - think fast and loose and swashbuckling instead of the minutiae of valves and stock prices.

[* chosen in part for the way it makes my inner editor quail]

[GaryTP]

KorbanDream,

Hi, new to posting here but not new to cell and sms. Spent three years working on visual messaging program with two partnered companies.

Want to chime in on your idea and see if it helps.

First. Neat idea.

Second. There are some great mobile JAVA apps out there now, but none with the potential depth this could have.

Third. From doing tests that quickly went into the thousands of users, you might not be able to handle the msg flow unless (a) use used an automated server for parts of it or (b) you instill a gamemaster app where one person of a particular group of friends could become the "human" side of the gamemaster equation. So that all my friends use me as the gamemaster. Your server could still keep track of buys, sells, where people are at, etc. (Just a thought.)

Fourth. Like your simple keypad "click I go there" model. As one who has watched countless testers handle all models of cell phones, people are short on time, impatient, and will only dig deep if there is a reward for their actions. SMS is usually done enroute to someplace, or when a person has a few minutes free. So the into and out of the game must be quick and easy...and I can pick up where I left off...and I'm not penalized for my phone cutting out or taking a call, or my battery dies, etc. (These are just normal things that testers and real life users have to deal with.)

Fifth. Players must become emotionally engaged with their character, or their world in some manner, unless this is meant to be a tactical resource management game. They need a reason to care. Not knowing what cool features you've added over the twenty-plus years you've worked on the game, I can't tell if you've done this. This can come from the other players in the same group, or from pivotal villains within your world that players love to hate, or person tragedies, etc. Would love elaboration on this.

Sixth. As to your money question. If you're serious about this (and twenty years says you are) you need to partner with someone in the industry. DOCOMO is the doorway in Japan you need to get into, or one of the European carriers, where there is population density and a culture who regularly pay for this sms product. In the US, sms and video and other are all still relatively small. Some use SMS, but it's mostly used for "I'm late", "Pick this up.", "Wanna hang?" or "Meet me at...". Americans have been spoiled by the rich internet, gameboy, Xbox landscape, so you play as a text game would need to be overseas.

Must go charge my own phone up:) Good luck!!!
Gary

[KorbanDream]

Morning All! (Yawn?).

From doing tests that quickly went into the thousands of users, you might not be able to handle the msg flow unless (a) use used an automated server for parts of it or (b) you instill a gamemaster app where one person of a particular group of friends could become the "human" side of the gamemaster equation. So that all my friends use me as the gamemaster. Your server could still keep track of buys, sells, where people are at, etc. (Just a thought.)

Hi Gary. That sound's like it could get rather technical...
How would a "GM" app operate, (other than as a stand alone that allows group play, (as in a craft's crew all playing together around one phone with the GM sending the team's next move etc)), I could see the programming issues alone being a nightmare...  :-)

So the into and out of the game must be quick and easy...and I can pick up where I left off...and I'm not penalized for my phone cutting out or taking a call, or my battery dies, etc. (These are just normal things that testers and real life users have to deal with).

Hmm. I've had this in the back of my mind for some time now and I have to admit I've the same view. I decided that a two to four hour gap between returns would be best as it gives any and all players, (Not to mention myself), a chance to 'send-when-I'm-ready' and that even if you miss the cut-off, there's always the next return.
I should just mention that there is a small penalty for missing the cut-off though, you haven't used that particular sms... as I'm trying to re-imburse per sms used... I suppose you could say that you would be giving yourself a penalty...?

Players must become emotionally engaged with their character, or their world in some manner, unless this is meant to be a tactical resource management game. They need a reason to care. Not knowing what cool features you've added over the twenty-plus years you've worked on the game, I can't tell if you've done this. This can come from the other players in the same group, or from pivotal villains within your world that players love to hate, or person tragedies, etc. Would love elaboration on this.

Firstly, I (think?), you could quite safely say it was both, as it's focus is on real life, ignoring the fact the date says 7414, it is still based on the fact that people need to eat, drink, sleep, get a job, get laid and have fun while they're doing it...(Especially the last one! ;-) ) and to me most of the above involves some element of emotional content.
As for love/hate ties... With an infinite number, (think of a shopping mall on a saturday and times the number by 163000000), of fixed characters and npc's, (Fixed characters are the mister big's of the npc world), spanning a game map the size of the Atlantic ocean, there's bound to be at least one that's gonna hold a grudge somewhere down the line...? :-}

As to your money question. If you're serious about this (and twenty years says you are) you need to partner with someone in the industry. DOCOMO is the doorway in Japan you need to get into, or one of the European carriers, where there is population density and a culture who regularly pay for this sms product. In the US, sms and video and other are all still relatively small. Some use SMS, but it's mostly used for "I'm late", "Pick this up.", "Wanna hang?" or "Meet me at...". Americans have been spoiled by the rich internet, gameboy, Xbox landscape, so you play as a text game would need to be overseas.

Hmm. Getting into industry. That's gonna be hard! - I'm a nobody, (actually, I'm worse than a nobody, I haven't had a job in years and you should see the state of my CV...!?), without a single qualification to my name, (Provable or otherwise?), with half the globe all trying to get into the game's circuit and the other half already there, I don't stand much chance of standing out really?

If nothing else, the Universe is a programmer's nightmare and although the concept maybe sound and the practicality of myself personally running it from a part mini-server / part manual basis upto a few hundred players may be possible, I find it hard to think the industry as it stand's with G3, video, Java downloads and god knows what more on the horizon would step back in time to the golden age of the text message and start throwing money at me...? - (Sorry, I can get carried away, Apologies).

What I mean is that I can face rejection head on, (10 years of it already behind me?), I just feel that the industry as it stands is more concerned with making money out of the concepts they've already built and not getting deeper into debt by buying into anything extra...

BTW: If I'm wrong or you think I'm talking crap just slap me...?