How much is too much for a character sheet?

[Inner Circle Inc]

I would like to interject that I loath the idea of needing a different type of character sheet for each class.  You might end up not playing the class that you want to play, simply do to the fact that you might lack the special character sheet for that class, and that's just absurd.

I believe that really, the character sheet is just a reference to help your memory.  If this weren't the case, then a larp could never work, as you'd have to run around, staring at your character sheet every 2 minutes.  This is why I think it's fine to have as many pages as nessesary, as long as each page has it's own purpose, so a player can find what they're referencing quickly.

Eli of Inner Circle

[ffilz]

I would like to interject that I loath the idea of needing a different type of character sheet for each class.

What about for different races? For example, if you want to have a pictorial hit location chart? Do you then limit the races to humanoids? Or do you have separate special character sheets for each race? Or do you fill a page with all the possible hit location charts? Or do you abandon the pictorial hit location chart, and give a bunch of lines for the player to fill in his own hit locations, and hope no one decides to play the 12 legged creature after you were only able to get 10 hit location lines onto the generic sheet (but if you went with special sheets for different character types, it would be easy to handle the 12 legged race because they're never spell casters).

In fact, any game where not everyone is a spell caster, or some have significantly more spells than others, you either need a special sheet for spell casters, or you consign the spell casters to writing their spells on the back of the sheet or something.

Now if this really is a goal of course, you can always design your game system to use as generic a character sheet as possible.

Frank

[Inner Circle Inc]

While it may sometimes be nessesary, it should be avoided at all costs.  It really isn't difficult to use a character sheet for all classes, as typically the rules ensures that they have enough in common that they don't have to throw away half of it just because it doesn't pertain to their class.

In terms of the races, it is true that if you're using a system that has different hit locations, you might need a different diagram for each race.  But think about it: you're devoting an entire new style character sheet just for that one diagram.  And God help you if you feel you need a special sheet for both class and race, which means you'd have to create a new sheet for every race/class combination.

[M. J. Young]

[list=1][*]Of course, this is almost entirely an opinion poll, and opinion polls are not really good topics here at the Forge. Some people like character sheets that are so detailed that they never have to reference a book in play; others like character sheets that are so basic that everything can be found without touching the paper. That's personal preference, and not much help.[*]I have never ever liked the design of any character sheet published by any game company. Legends of Alyria is about the best I've seen, but there are a number of things I think should be on the sheet that don't have a place. I design my own sheets for every game I play, and I customize them so that the material I think is important is where I can find it.[*]This discussion suggests that there's an either/or problem here when a both/and solution is quite viable. In my D&D games I have extensive character sheets which include all attributes, saves, weapon abilities, race and class abilities, experience, proficiencies, equipment, family, magic, psionics--anything the character might have, in sufficient detail that the player can access most of it without reference to books. It's never less than three pages and can reach a dozen for particularly complicated characters. I also have each character's abilities reduced to a three by five file card for quick reference, and a master spreadsheet that contains all the essentials for everyone in the game. Each has its advantages and its disadvantages, but having them all means I can use what works at this moment.[*]One problem that I think plagues some character sheet design is the confusion between a sheet that facilitates character creation and a sheet that facilitates gameplay. A lot of sheets are laid out in the order in which you'll generate the information. That's great for helping you construct the character, but not usually very good in play.[/list:o]I hope this helps.

--M. J. Young

[Lisa Padol]

My preference is for one side, one page or less character sheets. That said, I do know that different games have different requirements.

I also find that a lot of character sheet design sucks. I'm reading WW's WoD, and, while I like a lot of the changes to the system. I took one look at the character sheet and said, "They -still- haven't figured out how to design a blasted character sheet!" There are certain pieces of information -- specialties and a couple of other things -- that require blank space. Blank lines. Things that it would be really easy to build into the sheet, but it wasn't done that way. This is very annoying.

Kat Miller took the Everway sheet and cut it in half -- one side, half a page. This is much easier, but I would not recommend trying that trick for Pendragon or Rolemaster.

Over the Edge has my favorite character sheet, but again, this design would not work for any other game. It's one page, with a lot of blank space that's just so easy on my eyes. At that, OTE sheets can and have been cut down. For Beth's Hub game, we did use cards. Not index cards, but the backs of business cards. One of the players, delighted, said, "May I present my card?"

I find the character sheet of Wyrd is Bond hard to read, which is odd because there's not much there. But I still think the design could have been better. I like the Sorcerer character sheet. I found that Pendragon's sheet worked well in play.

-Lisa

[John Kim]

I find the character sheet of Wyrd is Bond hard to read, which is odd because there's not much there. But I still think the design could have been better. I like the Sorcerer character sheet. I found that Pendragon's sheet worked well in play.

I'm not familiar with Wyrd is Bond yet, but in a similar manner, I found that the SOAP character sheets were a pain.  

1. A huge amount of space is eaten up at the top by writing "CHARACTER SHEET" in giant letters over half an inch tall.  In contrast, there is a box for "Name" which is less than 1/8 of an inch tall with thick lines all around it.  

2. There are tiny (1/8") boxes with thick lines for you have to write in Name, Sex, Age, etc.  -- with huge whitespace around them and huge label text.  IMO, the information here is the important part and should be more prominent than the box or the label.  

3. There is a bunch of public stuff (like Name) at the top and other public stuff the bottom of the sheet (like character portrait), and then "Secret" is a big space in the middle.  So you can't show both the portait and the name to someone.  Secret should be at the bottom so it can be folded over and hidden.  

4. There is a space for notes, which is too small to draw a relationship diagram in or keep session notes in.    

For my two cents, I would say that it should be designed to be folded in half and stood up.  The top half would thus be upside-down so that everyone else can see the name, traits, and goal.  The back half should have space to write your secret and draw a relationship chart.

[Adorame]

Here's my take on it.

Take one sheet;  On the front top third place the most commonly used things you need during gameplay.  On the bottom third place secondary things such as (All the other weapons armor shields etc) that you would only use in an emergency.  Skills and spells would fall well under that and the back page could be devoted to equipment/quests/contacts in town etc./and general notes.

Hope that helps.

[M. J. Young]

Adorame--

First, we're kind of big on names here. What's yours?

Second, what goes in the middle third of the sheet?

--M. J. Young

[Inner Circle Inc]

To give you an idea as to the break down of the character sheet, we have the following.

Page 1 - Player name, character name, race, class, inventory, maximum hit points and armor, silver, lives lost, points for the five point based construction abilities and skills.

Page 2 - class advantages and disadvantages, skills (we have 44 ) and a section for notes.

Page 3 - Spell list (we have 57 spells, each with a level that dictates its power and the number of times per day it can be cast.  Spells are bought as skills via the build chart)

Page 4 - Page one of Mage Specific Abilities, 36 abilities bought via build chart by way of build points, our version of experience points.

Page 5 - Page two of Mage Specific Abilities, 36 abilities

Page 6 - Page one of Rogue specific abilities, 36 abilities

Page 7 - Page two of Rogue specific abilities, 36 abilities

Page 8 - Page one of Fighter specific abilities, 36 abilities

Page 9 - Page two of Fighter specific abilities, 36 abilities

Page 10 - Picture of the Sephirothic Tree (advancement for levels 21-30)

Page 11 - The ten Sephiroth along with in game runes

Page 12 - Progression chart with build holders

Page 13 - Character's physical descrpition & history

Page 14 - Reference, psionic costs, explosive costs

Page 15 - Reference, Poison costs, Armor types and modifications, notes

Page 16 - Combat Reference, prefered spells, skills abilities and point costs, current HP and AP, points left, information for weapons in right hand, left hand, right sheath, left sheath, across the back and shield.

Conversely, any interested are welcome to download and view the character sheet in PDF format on our website.

-Paul of Inner Circle Inc.