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275647 Posts in 27717 Topics by 4283 Members Latest Member: - otto Most online today: 57 - most online ever: 429 (November 03, 2007, 04:35:43 AM)
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Author Topic: BAD REVIEW 2 (Lashings of Ginger Beer)  (Read 1414 times)
Simon W
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Posts: 191


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« on: September 24, 2004, 09:40:49 AM »

There was recently a thread here
 
http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=12607

about Bones and the worry the author had about a bad review it got at RPGNOW

My concern is not my review as such, see it here

http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/10/10686.phtml

average though it is (comments at RPGNOW have been very good putting it in the top rankings based on customer comments) because the game has been out for 18 months or more and I've made most of my sales already. When I bring out my next rpg, I will learn from this one and do the whole thing a lot better anyway.

My issue is to do with the comment made by some bright spark called Dec, who calls the game dung and then disparages the indie scene as a whole.

What is more annoying is that he has had a go, because I chose to charge for this game and not put it up for free. I have about 15 free rpgs on my website and only two rpg's that I charge for and these are currently $2.50 and $3.00 each, respectively! The guy has a nerve or is a complete twat.

I feel I should just let it lie, but if I don't think I can, unless retrained or sedated. Any thoughts, comments or suggestions anyone?

Simon W
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Jasper
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Posts: 466


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« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2004, 10:01:04 AM »

Definitely just let it lie.  You're certainly not going to convince this guy that indie games can be good, or that LoGB is good.  I also doubt that anyone else really takes the guy seriously, or that his post will influence anyone else's opinion on indie/LoGB either.
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Jasper McChesney
Primeval Games Press
Simon W
Member

Posts: 191


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« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2004, 10:13:43 AM »

Thanks for your reply Jasper.

It looks like some kind peeps have already beaten me to it anyway and what they say has got to be worth far more than me getting all defensive about it.

Anyway, the money I have made will go to pay some good artists that I have already got onboard for my next project.

Simon W
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GregS
Member

Posts: 78


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« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2004, 11:31:59 AM »

Alright, this will be a bit of a tangent, but I feel very strongly about "defusing" the ire that can be generated by net comments.

A buddy of mine recently had an annonymous post to his Live Journal by some twonk who first admitted to reading the journal regularly and then proceeded to berate him, on his both real and perceived flaws, for a paragraph or two.  Everything from insulting his lineage to defaming his choices of life, it was a very harsh attack.

The reason for it, simply enough, is because the individual could.  Annynimity is a wonderful thing for cowards and half-wits, and the net is the ultimate resource for the person who has nothing to say but a lot of time to say it in.

Now, of course, all that is old news...but I fear we, as entrepreneurs, are in a particularly hard spot.  And I just know that Valherjar will get more than its share, for a number of reasons, of these armchair attacks.

The hardest part, without question, is to deal with these things in good humor...and I've already offered my thoughts on it a number of times.  The worst thing you can do, though, is respond critically to your critics.  It makes you look petty, vulnerable, and, most importantly, will actually rally support for the idiot-- because no matter how small your company is, to the consumer you're still big business-- and no one likes big business picking on people.

The best way to handle this, in my experience, is to either ignore it, counter it with positive hype of your own, or, if absolutely necessary, get someone else to defend you.  Somewhere there is a customer/playtester/whatever who loves your game, and if you encourage them to defend you, calling the proverbial spade a spade, it will look infinately better than you defending yourself.  As I've said before, when in doubt go read reviews on Amazon...they're a great cross section of how the net operates.

My buddy, not coincidentally, chose a great response to his delema.  Rather than lashing back, or decrying the poster, he simply responded with one word "...Mom?"  The humor, and unwillingness to get riled, not only made him look like the bigger man but also brought others rallying to his defense.  They did his work for him, and he ended up smelling like roses through it all.

Just my two bits.
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Game Monkey Press
http://www.gmpress.com

"When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that individual is crazy." -Dave Barry
Andy Kitkowski
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Posts: 827

I LIKE GAMES


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« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2004, 11:32:40 AM »

Yeah man, assholes will be assholes.  You just have to develop thicker skin without going all hostile, cranky and ballistic like many designers. :-)
Seriously, if I told you guys half the brain-dead rantish asshole comments that I got for my Indie RPG Awards (even some sent anonymously by one of the peer voters!!!), you'd shit yourselves.  It's friggin crazy, the amount of fierce criticism, ranting, and generally bent and misguided comments that come out of this niche industry.  Sometimes the only thing that keeps me going is remembering that this isn't the electronic (video) game industry, which is actually worse in this regard.

Seriously, I should teach seminars for indie designers. Maybe call it "Calm Down and Rise Above" or "Respect the Book and Tame the Troll" ;). Good people can burn out pretty quickly on nasty trolling.

Quote from: Simon W
It looks like some kind peeps have already beaten me to it anyway and what they say has got to be worth far more than me getting all defensive about it.


That's the best way to go about it- Just wait until someone sensible shows up and either trounces them (like I tend to do when I don't watch my tongue), or provides another (read: "Better") viewpoint.

Quote
Anyway, the money I have made will go to pay some good artists that I have already got onboard for my next project.


Which is awesome.  And seriously, should be another point to consider for these folks: Charging X for this game means that, maybe, the NEXT game will be a really high production job, etc.

-Andy

Three Fucking Dollars.  Seriously. Man, some people...
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The Story Games Community - It's like RPGNet for small press games and new play styles.
Simon W
Member

Posts: 191


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« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2004, 12:26:48 PM »

Good points all. Thanks.

The great news is that one guy who has a copy of the game was immediately prompted not only to respond to the idiot (who I guess doesn't have a copy...I'm only guessing here mind) but also posted a good review/comment at RPGNOW where he bought it from.

As a final point, the idiot said that we (indie game designers) go charging for our products, when they should be free. Apart from the obvious stuff i could talk about, some of my 15 or so free games would never have been even designed let alone put up for free, if it hadn't been for the (semi) success of LoGB. It was the buzz I got from the kind comments about that game that made a number of the others worthwhile.

Anyway, you are all right. His idiot comments should just be ignored.

Simon W
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jrs
Member

Posts: 373


« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2004, 01:24:36 PM »

Simon,

If you haven't already done so, check-out Vincent's GenCon story, http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=12573">A GenCon Story. Contains Swears.  It's another example of a customer complaining about the price of an indie game; it also demonstrates that anonymity is not required for a person to be obnoxious.

Julie
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Matt Machell
Member

Posts: 477


WWW
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2004, 07:37:37 AM »

Simon,

the best bit of advice I've ever been given (I think it was when I started doing web design, I can't recall from who) is that in any form of creative endeavor, the first thing you should acquire is a thick skin.

You can't please everybody. Simple as that.

I've edited books on Web Development that got rave amazon reviews from some, and cries that it was spawn of the devil from others. Your work will be right for some, and wrong for others.

Criticism is just something to live with. You can't convince the detractors. But your behavior towards them can convince others.

-Matt
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