Forum changes: Editing of posts has been turned off until further notice.
Started by Eric Provost, October 15, 2004, 01:54:27 PM
Quote from: Ron EdwardsMystery for whom? Who is to "solve" it? Why would anyone want to do that?
QuoteFor instance, a particular set of players may be interested in solving the mystery very much in the sense that a viewer of a mystery novel might be, with the GM in the approximate role of the novel's author.. If this is the case, then it is absolutely necessary for the GM to make sure that the events of play will solve the mystery, just as the novelist does. The players' role is to add Color and perhaps to speed up the process, or elaborate upon how it gets solved.
QuoteHere's another, serious one: whose understanding matters, the players' or the characters'? Can the characters get it before the players do, perhaps with a couple of "good rolls"? Or what if a player figures it out when his or her character couldn't possibly know? Is the player then obliged not to blurt anything out until the character finally gets it? Or not?
QuoteIn other words, saying "play a mystery" or "run a mystery" tells us nothing. I have no idea what sort of role-playing you're talking about, or why the people are playing.
Quote from: neelkThis is a great post, Chris. I don't have much to add, but I do want to offer public praise. :)
QuoteI just wanted to say thanks for your thoughts in the step-by-step mystery thread. I'd read it earlier and was hoping something good would come along.After reading what you had written, I closed that tab and went back to surfing the web... and then a second later leand back in my chair and said, "Shit. I know how to run a mystery now. That's so cool!"
QuoteWhat Eric's asking is how to construct such a mystery so that the players can solve it and feel pleased that they have done so.
QuoteCausality, folks! If the players have to solve the mystery, you have to take the random factor out completely. If they ask the right question, they get the right answer, period.
Quote from: Technocrat13Right off, I'd like to hug you Chris. You understood what I was looking for and wrote some gold in here for us.
Quote from: ICausality, folks! If the players have to solve the mystery, you have to take the random factor out completely. If they ask the right question, they get the right answer, period.
Quote from: EricTake the random factor out completely? I'm not convinced that would be necessary....
QuoteI keep coming back to the classic investigator's scene where they spot the clue that no one else could spot, or understand. For example, in Chris' example of the Flower Bed & Footprint clues... Sure, the PCs -have- to find the footprints, but what else do they find?
QuoteIn the first block, the characters investigate the Result, trying to find out every possible detail, however trivial.
Quote from: Technocrat13I guess I just pulled the example from the wrong place in your write-up. You used the flowerbed as a Block 3 example, and I used it as a Block 1 example to set up for my proto-clue idea. Does that sound right?
QuoteI'm excited to hear what you think about the proto-clues. They itch in my brain like a good thing, but I can't quite work out all the details, so I can't tell for sure if they really can be a good thing.
Quote from: clehrichI guess what I'm saying is that if you want to tell a solid Premise-oriented story -- Narrativist Story Now stuff -- then narrative power to manipulate proto-clues to clarify the Premise and keep it focal is probably worthwhile. You can have all the NPCs have subtle involvement with the same Premise, for example, which wasn't required by the GM's Case. For example, to keep with the race Premise, all the other people in the story can be made to have important perspectives on the issue, which complicates the apparent Case wildly without much changing what has really happened. But on the other hand, since the players cannot know which things are really clues and which are incidental, that same narrative control is likely to produce a great story and a Case that probably isn't much like the GM wanted and quite possibly doesn't make a whole lot of sense.