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Author Topic: Clinton's Fourth Axiom of Game Design  (Read 33345 times)
Clinton R. Nixon
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« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2004, 09:53:49 PM »

Quote from: hix
The Farm. If you're familiar with it. (And maybe this'll help me get a grip on the rules).


Again, not hard with a little setting-work. The residents are captured and tortured Jedi in the Farm, which is a Sith/Imperial torture camp. Everything's stripped away from you, especially your lightsaber, and you're pitted against the Overseers, each other, and yourself.

Rules changes:
 - You can make a Willpower check in any situation to perform minor Jedi-like psychic acts. In a fight, you can use this to perform physical feats. On success, those successes act as bonus dice to a real check which determines the final result. On failure, take Strain equal to the amount you would need for a success.

The point: to torture and kill the majority of Jedi, while creating a few super-nasty Dark Jedi in the process.
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Clinton R. Nixon
CRN Games
Blankshield
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« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2004, 10:44:04 PM »

Quote from: Clinton R. Nixon
Quote from: Blankshield
Breaking the Ice

James


Apologies - no idea what that is. Hook me up with a link, though, and I'll be glad to check it out.


I only have the print copy that Emily handed me a gencon, but a search for all terms here with "breaking the ice emily" pulls up some threads, including a pair of actual plays.

thanks,

James
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I write games. My games don't have much in common with each other, except that I wrote them.

http://www.blankshieldpress.com/
Emily Care
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« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2004, 07:59:54 AM »

Hey Clinton,

This is the way coolest thread in the galaxy.

Go here for BtI.

Here's my entry:
Great Ork Gods.

best,
Emily

ps James, it might have been Julie that gave you the copy at GenCon.  I think Vincent said she put them on display. Thanks jrs!
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Koti ei ole koti ilman saunaa.

Black & Green Games
Clinton R. Nixon
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« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2004, 08:13:35 AM »

Quote from: Emily Care
Hey Clinton,

This is the way coolest thread in the galaxy.

Go here for BtI.

Here's my entry:
Great Ork Gods.


Ok, Breaking the Ice is the first really hard one. I'm going to read it and get back to you on that.

Great Ork Gods falls into that camp of "you play bad people, so how can we use it for Jedi?" Those are easy, although this is one of the hardest of the bunch, because you play bad, stupid people. I'm delving into Zahn's Star Wars continuation books for it. I would retitle it:

Custodians of the Empire

After the wars are over and the Republic has pushed the Empire to the farthest fringes of the galaxy, ex-Admirals and Moffs of the Empire scrabble over what little bit of power they can get. You are Dark Jedi, all on a far-away farm planet ruled by seven powerful Imperials (the Ork Gods). They command all of you, and you may be loyal to one at one moment, and another the next moment. To find favor in their eyes, though, you must be ruthless, not even letting another Dark Jedi stand in your path. Wipe out resistance at any cost!
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Clinton R. Nixon
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Mike Holmes
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« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2004, 09:05:21 AM »

Well, I've already done a thread on a HQ conversion myself. And TROS has been done to death this way.

I'd say Sorcerer, but that's been done a lot, too, I think, and further, just falls under your "playing bad people" concept...

Playing SW is Universalis is like...playing anything else in Universalis. :-)

Here's a possible challenge to the principle - Trollbabe. Is it too focused to make a good SW game? (Or not, in your opinion, a good game?) Similarly, Donjon? I mean at some point a game has to be specific enough that it just can't be used without changing it entirely, right? "My Love for You is Way Outta Line"?

Are sim games not "Good Games?" How about Savage Worlds? Adventure!? Uh, Hero System? If you think Hero is bad, then how do you explain that it can do Star Wars so well (light sabre - Killing Attack: Hand-To-Hand 2d6, Double Armor Piercing)? Or doesn't it?

D&D?

Mike
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Clinton R. Nixon
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« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2004, 09:38:17 AM »

Quote

Are sim games not "Good Games?" How about Savage Worlds? Adventure!? Uh, Hero System? If you think Hero is bad, then how do you explain that it can do Star Wars so well (light sabre - Killing Attack: Hand-To-Hand 2d6, Double Armor Piercing)? Or doesn't it?

D&D?


Mike,

No offense, but what are you talking about? All of the above games would run Jedi excellently, including D&D. What's up with that first question? It sounds really defensive.

Quote from: Mike Holmes
Well, I've already done a thread on a HQ conversion myself. And TROS has been done to death this way.

I'd say Sorcerer, but that's been done a lot, too, I think, and further, just falls under your "playing bad people" concept...

Playing SW is Universalis is like...playing anything else in Universalis. :-)

Here's a possible challenge to the principle - Trollbabe. Is it too focused to make a good SW game? (Or not, in your opinion, a good game?) Similarly, Donjon? I mean at some point a game has to be specific enough that it just can't be used without changing it entirely, right? "My Love for You is Way Outta Line"?


Man, I was hoping for Sorcerer, too. That's easy - and works for good and bad Jedi.

Trollbabe - it's Jedi all the way. You're human, but not, trapped between the need to love and be loved, yet be a stoic center of non-emotion and power. Replace "Magic" with "Force" and you're hooked up. (Ok - more explanation. Fighting is still fighting. Force is for long-term uses of Force to do things like find out where the lost Jedi is, for example.)

Donjon is big cartoony Star Wars action. There's an early Star Wars novel that I can't remember the name of. It's written by one of those interchangable B-string fantasy guys, like Alan Dean Foster or someone. Anyway, it's totally a dungeon crawl with Luke and Darth Vader both trying to go through these caverns to get some magic crystal that makes your Force powers the bad-ass. That's Donjon Jedi.

My point in the axiom, which Wilhelm expounded upon wonderfully, is that no game really has to be changed much, because all role-playing games are basically about Jedi.
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Clinton R. Nixon
CRN Games
Paul Czege
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« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2004, 09:54:16 AM »

Hey Clinton,

My point in the axiom, which Wilhelm expounded upon wonderfully, is that no game really has to be changed much, because all role-playing games are basically about Jedi.

http://www.halfmeme.com/nicotinegirls.html">Nicotine Girls?

Paul
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My Life with Master knows codependence.
And if you're doing anything with your Acts of Evil ashcan license, of course I'm curious and would love to hear about your plans
Mike Holmes
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« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2004, 09:57:48 AM »

Just a question, Clinton. Asked and now answered. I'm trying to figure out what your principle tells us. So far it seems that all games are good. Rather, everyone throws good games at you, per your request, so that proves the principle, but doesn't say anything about what it's good for.

I know, I'm probably taking it too seriously.

Quote from: Clinton R. Nixon

My point in the axiom, which Wilhelm expounded upon wonderfully, is that no game really has to be changed much, because all role-playing games are basically about Jedi.
Well, it seems that you're saying that Jedi are: People who have adventures. In which case it's hard not to agree. Again, I'm just not sure what that says about anything.

Apparently I'm not getting the point.

Mike
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Clinton R. Nixon
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« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2004, 10:53:43 AM »

Quote from: Mike Holmes
Just a question, Clinton. Asked and now answered. I'm trying to figure out what your principle tells us. So far it seems that all games are good. Rather, everyone throws good games at you, per your request, so that proves the principle, but doesn't say anything about what it's good for.

I know, I'm probably taking it too seriously.


Actually, I think it's been proven to either be wrong, or illogical at this point.

Illogical:
By Wilhelm's analysis, any game where you play people which powers which stand apart from the norm and have to make a Choice(tm) can be used for Jedi. This encompasses 99% of RPGs. The ones it doesn't are still good games, and my axiom implies I like games about gifted people who have to make a choice.

Wrong:
Blankshield pretty much wins the competition - Breaking the Ice is not about Jedi. (However, playing it as two Jedi on a date would be awesome, and if I ever play this game, that will be exactly what I do. There's a good Astro City comic about superheroes on a date that I'll re-read first.)

You mentioned you don't see the point. To be honest, this was just a thread for fun more than anything. I had a great time translating Dogs in the Vineyard to Jedi, and so I thought I'd take challenges.

Forget about it, folks. I forgot that this is a serious place.
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Clinton R. Nixon
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rafial
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« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2004, 11:48:29 AM »

Quote from: Clinton R. Nixon

Forget about it, folks. I forgot that this is a serious place.


All work and no Jedi makes Jack a dull boy.

And I just have to toss in my parting shot: My Life with Master Yoda

"Go into the tree, you must!"

Oh, and the book you were thinking of was Splinter of the Mind's Eye by Alan Dean Foster.  It was, to my memory, the first SW novel that was published after the original novelizations came out, and at nine or ten or whatever I was, I thought it was the most freakin awesome book I had ever read, and I liked it even better than the movie!
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Paul Czege
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« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2004, 12:09:08 PM »

Rafial,

It was, to my memory, the first SW novel that was published after the original novelizations came out...

I believe it came out after the Star Wars novel, and before the Empire Strikes Back movie. But it definitely came out before the Return of the Jedi movie. Remember the Luke/Leia mudfight/kissing scene?

Paul
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My Life with Master knows codependence.
And if you're doing anything with your Acts of Evil ashcan license, of course I'm curious and would love to hear about your plans
Mike Holmes
Acts of Evil Playtesters
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« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2004, 12:11:36 PM »

C'mon, Clinton, give me a break. I said I was probably taking it too seriously. Not good enough?

Here I go again:

I, Mike Holmes, do solemnly apollogize for taking this thread too seriously, and do avow that it's a great topic for discussion, and request that everyone ignore my past participation in it, such that it can proceed as before. And, once again, I request that in the future everyone remember how much of an anal retentive fuckhead I can be about these things.

Better?

The Jedi dating idea for Icebreaker made me laugh hard enough to almost get me fired. :-)

Mike
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Clinton R. Nixon
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« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2004, 12:24:54 PM »

Quote from: Mike Holmes
C'mon, Clinton, give me a break. I said I was probably taking it too seriously. Not good enough?
...

The Jedi dating idea for Icebreaker made me laugh hard enough to almost get me fired. :-)


Mike,

You know I kid.

So, back on track - Nicotine Girls works! I got my hold on it while I was being mopey. So, not all Jedi can be Luke Skywalker, right? Shit, most of them can't be Count Dooku, for all the ass he is. (No offense to Christopher Lee, who I am afraid will kung-fu me into next week.)

The burnouts, the kids who by the luck-of-the-draw get some little glowy midi-something up in their blood, the punks and weirdos and "why the hell did I have to come to a special school?" kids that smoke behind the Jedi Academy gymnasium - that's Jedi Nicotine Girls, or as I call it, Jedi Burnouts.

Only rule change needed: the Methods are Sex, Force, and Cry. I imagine this to be like Kevin Smith writing Ender's Game or better yet, Ender's Shadow.
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Clinton R. Nixon
CRN Games
Mike Holmes
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« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2004, 12:53:22 PM »

LOL

Outstanding. :-)

Kevin Smith should be informed.

Mike
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Clinton R. Nixon
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« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2004, 01:00:42 PM »

Quote from: Paul Czege
Rafial,

It was, to my memory, the first SW novel that was published after the original novelizations came out...

I believe it came out after the Star Wars novel, and before the Empire Strikes Back movie. But it definitely came out before the Return of the Jedi movie. Remember the Luke/Leia mudfight/kissing scene?

Paul


I remember that! I read it only about seven years ago, and thought, "Wait a minute..."

And now I know how a game of Jedi Breaking the Ice (or Breaking the Laws of Nature, in this case) ends.
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Clinton R. Nixon
CRN Games
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