[RUN] Thoughts on a new game idea

[Atilary]

I was also wondering what you mean when you say "hard limit" vs "soft limit?"  Does this refer to worldfram contrainsts vs. software (AI) constraints?    I am unclear exactly this means.

[Kensan_Oni]

Is it just me, or did this person end up with Highlander meets Tron 2.0, meets Vampire (meets .hack//)?

This game is going to get ugly when the GM decides to end it, as the PC's will end up being the only things left on the server that still are alive... and they need to finish removing corruptions...

Don't get me wrong, I love the concept, and the system is okay, I suppose.  I just wondering how dark this game is aiming to be.

[jknevitt]

Is it just me, or did this person end up with Highlander meets Tron 2.0, meets Vampire (meets .hack//)?

This game is going to get ugly when the GM decides to end it, as the PC's will end up being the only things left on the server that still are alive... and they need to finish removing corruptions...

Don't get me wrong, I love the concept, and the system is okay, I suppose.  I just wondering how dark this game is aiming to be.

The idea that the PCs are just going to be killing everything in sight is pretty far-fetched. Sure, it can happen, but how long do you think it would take before someone blew their digital brains out? They get hurt just like everyone else.

I won't lie and say RUN isn't focused on combat, because it is. That doesn't mean that's ALL it's about.

Take The Matrix for example. Is it about combat? Sure. Do Neo and Trinity and Morpheus kill everyone in sight and take their wallets because they can? No, because they don't NEED to.

The example of marauding gangs harvesting kernels was a very tongue-in-cheek, extreme example of what could happen given the parameters of the setting.

Long story short: Is it possible for player AIs need to be mass murderers and spree killers? Yes. Is it required by their nature? No.

[jknevitt]

I was also wondering what you mean when you say "hard limit" vs "soft limit?"  Does this refer to worldfram contrainsts vs. software (AI) constraints?    I am unclear exactly this means.

Ah, sorry.

Soft limit: the limit an individual program (ie an AI) can stretch the programming limits of Worldframe without causing a potential program crash.

Hard Limit: the limit at which Worldframe can handle such programming. Theoretically, if a program were to exceed a hard limit in any of their Functions, Worldframe (or a part of it) would crash.

Think Blue Screen of Death, except with reality.

[Atilary]

So I am ready to run a game.  I worked out my own game system, based loosly on a mechanic where the number of dice you roll is determined by the difficulty of the task - roll under your skill value to suceede.  

I can see this game as being run as pseudo Shadowrun, with some Matrix mixed in.  The world/campaign would consist of a city, endless in size, the kind of megametropolis that the east coast is gradually turning into.  Just one endless metroplois sprawl.  Of course, there are other cities, but most people have never been to any, and even less know where they are at.  As society/technology has become more advanced (they believe they have a real authentic history, which might be true), less emphisis has been placed on the physical experience, and people travel less and think for themselves much less than we (the players) do.

Of course, underneath this bustling city-sprawl another, darker world exists.  This is the world of the PCs.  I look at this as being an almost seperate world, where different rules exist for these special people.  This world is where those that can worldhack live and function.  While they might exist around the other unenlightened AIs, they understand the true nature of things.  
They might, for example, be moderately wealthy bussinessmen, who, despite who you ask, can never be seen actually doing work.  They might also be leaders of underground gangs, akin to the "Marovingian" of the Matrix, pseudo "vampires" that pirate kernel to maintain their virtual immortality and to sell as "special K," kernel made into a highly addictive drug.  Of course, anything is possible.  It is the idea of two seperate worlds, one for the normal AIs to occupy, and the second for the E[nlightened]AIs to function in.  Both worlds co-exist, one living inside the other.  Anyway, I can easily see a group of EAIs being employed in big covert corporate/government operations, stealing technology, coding, fighting against corporations/government, or being employed to track down R[ogue]AIs or destroy NlHvns (Nullhavens).  It could easily be a campaign in which EAI are attempting to locate a Nullhaven, or create one themselves.  I think the possibilities for this game are boundless.

All I need now are people to play... hmm, where has my rpg group gone...?  Oh, thats right, Afghanistan, Iraq, and one to Digipen.  The other has a baby now and lives in another state.  The last remaining is graduating from college this weekend and looking for an internship... Oh well, guess I might as well quit thinking about this.

[Atilary]

Hmm, now that I think about it, I can see a LotR campaign where the AIs need to traverse Worldframe to delivery a dangerous piece of technology to a Nullhaven, of course with black corporate and government angents riding around trying to find/stop them.  In the end they arrive just in time to see all hell break loose as government and corporate angents converge to capture them... will they hand the code over in time, or will the even goonies get it first?

[GaryTP]

Great concept. Would be neat if the die mechanic (if there is one) had to do with binary. 0 1 0 1 0 ...

The more 1's that appear, the more you succeed. O's takes you the other way.

Perhaps it aligns with your base Functions

-Functions (fluid/dynamic figures)-
Rewrite
Complexity
Protection
Speed
Stability

R C P S S
0 0 0 0 0    
1 0 0 0 0    
1 1 0 0 0
1 1 1 0 0    
1 1 1 1 0
1 1 1 1 1
0 1 1 1 1
0 0 1 1 1
0 0 0 1 1
0 0 0 0 1
0 1 0 1 0
1 0 1 0 1
1 1 0 1 0
and so on...

Each function has a position that coordinates with the position of the five digits. Do this with 5 colored six-side dice (1, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0) or create a table to read the result.

Just thinking out loud.

Gary

[Atilary]

Thats a cool idea.  I went with a mechanic where you have a skill value, normal starting being something between 4-8, and you roll a number of dice based on the difficulty of the task.  Simple = 1d, moderate=2d, difficult=3d, very difficult=4d, extreme=5d, impossible=6d.  I am going to use a system of four "aptitudes," each one affecting the skills in positive/negative ways.  I broke the skills into 2 sets, what I am calling "worldframe" and "realframe," worldframe being the actual AI reality underlieing everything, and "Realframe" being the human-like reality that sits on top of it.  AI know they are AI, but most cannot worldhack and live a life like a normal human.  However, there are some with skills that let them do special things...

Anyway, I stayed close to jknevitt's original idea but changed the mechanics around a bit.  its a system i have been tossing in my head for a while, hopefully I will get to use it soon.  We shall see.

[Doehring]

As an idea use the rule of 6 to set the level of the game. The rule of 6 for you non shadowrun players is if you get a 6 reroll it add both if you keep getting a 6 you keep reroling and adding. Your system will use it backward a target number of 10 would be a really easy target number but it would set a limitless feature to target numbers.

You could set an amount of dice to roll only count the highest roll and depending on your skill level you roll less dice.

The system can be changed and changed to work with your game.

I will be looking foward to hearing more about your game.

[Spooky Fanboy]

I was also wondering what you mean when you say "hard limit" vs "soft limit?"  Does this refer to worldfram contrainsts vs. software (AI) constraints?    I am unclear exactly this means.

Ah, sorry.

Soft limit: the limit an individual program (ie an AI) can stretch the programming limits of Worldframe without causing a potential program crash.

Hard Limit: the limit at which Worldframe can handle such programming. Theoretically, if a program were to exceed a hard limit in any of their Functions, Worldframe (or a part of it) would crash.

Er, I still don't get it. If you go past the soft limit, it might crash, but if you go past the hard limit, the Worldframe will crash? Is that what you meant, or is there more info you could give us on this? This seemed real unclear in the playtest.

Also: do I post playtest questions here, or to the email address?

[jknevitt]

Er, I still don't get it. If you go past the soft limit, it might crash, but if you go past the hard limit, the Worldframe will crash? Is that what you meant, or is there more info you could give us on this? This seemed real unclear in the playtest.

Also: do I post playtest questions here, or to the email address?

Yeah. The more I looked at limits, the more I didn't like them. Poof! They're gone!

I took a good hard look at the whole system, actually, and I'm in the process of whittling down what isn't really needed and beefing up what IS needed. I'll let everybody know when the revised Alpha stuff is on the website.

By all means, post questions here!

[jknevitt]

A bit of info on Upgrades:
Every AI's skill base (ie what they can do well) is recorded in Worldframe's main databases, and is incremented as an AI learns new things. Worldframe limits AIs in this way so that they will learn organically, like humans do.

People that can hack Worldframe can conveniently ignore this fact. By hacking into the internal databases of Worldframe itself, they can download certain skills or abilities into their own programming and bypass what Worldframe allows them to learn. These hacks are called Upgrades.

Upgrades come in one of three forms: Power, which allow AIs to physically outperform; Finesse, which give AIs extraordinary skill and ability; and Metahacks, which are alterations to an AI's personal database that allow them to further hack reality.

(Upgrades are rated from 1 to 3, and add bonus dice to actions and such.)

Now here's how you all (y'all?) can help out a poor struggling game creator.

I'm trying to think of Upgrades that AIs can have. Basically these are like when people get uploads in The Matrix. I'm trying to get 24-30 down total (8-10 for each category -- Power, Finesse, Metahacks) but I'm having major blockage.

Thoughts?

[Atilary]

A bit of info on Upgrades:
Every AI's skill base (ie what they can do well) is recorded in Worldframe's main databases, and is incremented as an AI learns new things. Worldframe limits AIs in this way so that they will learn organically, like humans do.

People that can hack Worldframe can conveniently ignore this fact. By hacking into the internal databases of Worldframe itself, they can download certain skills or abilities into their own programming and bypass what Worldframe allows them to learn. These hacks are called Upgrades.

Upgrades come in one of three forms: Power, which allow AIs to physically outperform; Finesse, which give AIs extraordinary skill and ability; and Metahacks, which are alterations to an AI's personal database that allow them to further hack reality.

(Upgrades are rated from 1 to 3, and add bonus dice to actions and such.)

Now here's how you all (y'all?) can help out a poor struggling game creator.

I'm trying to think of Upgrades that AIs can have. Basically these are like when people get uploads in The Matrix. I'm trying to get 24-30 down total (8-10 for each category -- Power, Finesse, Metahacks) but I'm having major blockage.

Thoughts?

Like I posted earlier I have been working on my own similar system for your setting.  I decided to use the kernel trait as a basis for what I called "kernel bank,"  and character that can hack may store "upgrades" in this bank, which of course has limited capacity.  The actual upgrades are mostly in the form of knowledge/profession skills, i.e. I need to know how to do this... *hacking hacking hacking...* ... *saving...* there, its done.  Then when they don't need this they can purge it out to make room for other stuff.  They can also store data in this (i.e. Johnny Pneumonic(sp?)), and in such a way it is something of AI currency.  "Don't need your kernel bank?  Lease it to CitiCorp, and we can use it for you."  Its also a way for people to "brainwash" AI, as long as they are able to burn the hack into the kernel bank, so it cant be purged.  Of course, using this has its consequences... the more difficult a thing you do with the bank, the more you access/purge it, the more likely it will be to corrupt... and once it corrupts its real hard to fix...

[Atilary]

Here's a location/story hook I just made up to stir a little more interest in this game...

Grottos
This elusive location actual resides under New Plaza, with inconspicuous entrances in nearby alleyways and access tunnels of Septopolis' 3rd and 4th rails.  Situated under New Plaza, wedged between what should be the 3rd and 4th rail lines, this underground building is actually larger on the inside than on the outside.
   Built by Akitophle, this night club and hideaway operates in a worldhacked reality where each separate room offers a new experience.   Actually built by CitiCorp, Akitophle has used his political influence to win contracts that have grown the emerging technologies company into a threat to the autonomy of the AI citizens.
   Grottos serves as a nightclub to the public, which is a front for the real purpose, a secretive location for CitiCorp's most advanced research.  Akitophle and his colleagues live and work here underneath Septopolis' most renown landmark.
   Of course the club is used as a distribution point for "Special K," the insidious kernel drug created by Akitophle.  Beyond lust for money, little is known about his reasons for creating the drug, or what the lasting effects of its use are.  Few know anything about Grottos at all, and even fewer know its true nature.
   What is known is that a growing number of EAI* have become very outspoken about CitiCorp, and many that have spoken out have disappeared.  More disturbing, some of those that spoke out have now become spokesmen for CitiCorp.  Why the sudden change in opinion?  What's the true nature of Special K?  Where the hell is all this going?  Who knows...

*EAI = Englightened Artifical Intelligence, those that understand the nature of Worldframe and can use it to their own advantage.

[Atilary]

jknevitt,
I just took a quick look at your new playtest upload, awesome stuff.  I haven't gotten a chance to read through it, and am going to get some sleep right now, but in the next few days I will post further comments.  On the other hand, your generation and upgrades are really cool.  I especially like how you have created an upgraded essentially to fit each each of the genres you mentioned this game to be based on, and even to let people pick and choose aspects from each.  For any just wacthing the thread, its certainly cool stuff, take a look.  Anyway, keep up the good work.