The Forge Archives

Comrades!

I hope people know about the HQ-engine Mythic Russia game in development, and if they don't, they can learn more @ http://www.firebird-productions.com. I've posted a poll on the MR newslist (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Mythic_Russia/) about the importance people place on there being a sample scenario in a game book, but without supplanting that, I'm interested in canvassing opinion as just what needs to be in that scenario, if there is one.

I've had a couple of useful suggestions already, but I won't air them yet, so that people start on as clean a sheet as possible. I will just note a couple of practical constraints:

1. We are talking just about a single scenario

2. It can't be an epic: something the length of Chasing Kites would be the maximum size.

Beyond that, though, I'd love to hear people's views. What do they look for in a sample scenario and what doesn't work; how detailed ought it be; should it try to be as generic as possible? Any thoughts very welcome!

All the best

Mark

Is there any centralizing conciet that is assumed for play? For example, is it standard that all of the heroes are from the same village?

Basically, I think this is a good starting place. Figure out how the heroes are going to be linked, and then work off of those common assumptions. Otherwise it's hard to make a scenario that fits any character thrown at it.

Mike

Hi Mark,

I'm not very fond of "generic" scenarios. By being specific rather than generic, you will present an example of how things could be done. People will still need to make changes to suit their needs, but they will have to do that anyway, right?

Another thing to consider is to not include so much a scenario, as a concrete example of campaign prep. "Mark is preparing to run a new Mythic Russia campaign, and here's how he does it."

All IMHO.

All the best,

Peter has an excellent point.

Generally I have a problem with the entire idea of pre-written scenarios for Hero Quest (heck, for many games). They're just never going to properly grab the heroes that the players generate - you're always left with a characterization, and a plot, and the two not mixing properly. Oh, there's always the obligatory "How to Get The Characters Involved" section, but it's always generic. This is why "offer money" is so prevalent - it's so broadly pertinent to characters, given that they often can convert the money to other goals.

So it's the whole fish thing. You know, "Give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach him to fish and he'll never be hungry." I really think that Peter's idea is the much better way to do things. Because no matter how good the scenario, the narrator is always going to have to make the cognative leap to figuring out how it was that the designer came up with the scenario. Sans context, the best he can come up with is how to make an scenario unrelated to the PCs like the one in the book. At best.

Mike

I think the purpose of an Introductory Scenario in a RPG book is to fulfil two (possibly contradictory) aims.  One is to demonstrate how the system works and the other is to provide at least some idea of what sort of scenarios you might run.  They may not be necessary for the experienced GM and/or those already familiar with the background described, but for others, experiencing something in actual play can be much easier to "get a handle on" than just reading it in a book.  (Also remember that while the putative GM will hopefully have read the examples and background, the players may not be so keen on doing large amounts of reading before sitting down to play).

So in terms of "system" the scenario should provide a number of different contests (with staging tips) to demonstrate individual and group contests, to suggest when simple and extended contests might be appropriate, and to show how different types of contest (combat, social, mental, magical, physical) are all resolved in the same way.

In terms of setting things become a little more difficult, and MR, (like Glorantha) will support play at a lot of different levels and styles, which a single scenario can't hope to do justice to.  What you need, I think is something that, if you played it as a one off game at a Convention would make you want to play again.

Introductory scenarios often try to be very open, in that players can bring (almost) any character permitted by the rules and (hopefully) find a way to get them involved.  I'm not sure this is necessarily the best way to go though.  

In the Midnight Thread the original poster pregenerated a number of characters to allow his players to experience the HQ system for the Midnight setting, and this certainly seems to have the advantage that you can make the scenario more appropriate to the characters if you know who they are! The disadvantages are that (1) you can't predict the number of Players a GM will have and (2) some players dislike (or refuse) to play pre-generated characters - so you still need some flexibilty, to allow fewer or more PC's without too much disruption - but then no solution will ever be perfect.

I like the Pre-gen idea, if you're going to include a scenario, as it can be tailored then. And it makes a good demo then as well, FWIW.

What might be optimal is to create sample characters in the chargen section, and then in the scenario section show how you come up with the scenario for those characters. Which, of course, creates the scenario at the same time.

Best of all worlds, and it neatly connects things end to end. I'm going to have to use that in my next game.

Mike

Nice ideas coming up, prompting a new question:

How many pregen characters do people think are needed; or to put it another way, in what size groups do people play regularly or at cons?

All the best

Mark

Well, at cons they usually want you to run for like 6 to 8, but I resist that temptation.

My optimum for any game, con or no, is 4. With 3 being my second choice followed by 5. This has only been reinforced by all of my HQ play.

Now, that said, it's imaginable that Mythic Russia has something about it that makes it more suitable for more or less - hard to say at the moment. But, basically, is there anything that makes it neccessary to focus on individual characters more than usual? Or, OTOH, anything that makes it more of a "mission" or "party" based game?

Mike

OK, guys: any more input?

Intro scenarios which work well? Ones which don't? What you especially expect and want to see in one?

And, how many players do you tend to have in a game?

All the best (and Happy New Year)

Mark

The one other comment that I'd have is to echo something mentioned above, sorta. That is, in making the scenario "show" things about play to the participants, make sure it displays how the world of Mythic Russia is different than our world. I mean, people will have a good idea of how play occurs from a POV of "Well, it's our world, so if you drop something it'll fall." But make sure something archtypically magic happens, for example, so they can get a feel of what that's like, and, as such, how this world is different from ours.

Oh, also, don't do the "beginner" scenario. I've come to really despise that one for several reasons. That is, don't have the characters be newly minted neophyte types just heading out from the village for the first time ever. Because you won't be able to throw challenges at them that show the epic potential of the game. If they want to play the neophytes, then they can do that themselves - few people have problems with that. What's less obvious is how to run a game for more experienced characters.

Mike

I might be responding too late on this, but oh well....

I'm not sure that there has to be an introductory scenario, IF the examples clearly show some of the types of adventures that might be typical in mythic russia.  That is, some of the examples would need added words, framing what has come before and what comes after the specif thing being shown in the example.  Something like (just pulling examples out of the air here, obviously not tailored to MR that well).

"Vastnya tracks down one of his father's old companions, Igor, who was also with the old prince on that fateful trip.  Igor shows them a whole in his skull, explaining that a shaman with a foxes nose had drilled out an evil spirit that was haunting him, but that the shaman had also stolen his memories of that trip at the same time.   The shaman with the fox's nose is of course Uncle Nobody, whom the players already have a relationship with.

<insert detailed example of using a relationship, with typical modifiers>

[The narrator] decides that with their marginal success, Uncle Nobody offers to return the memory if the heros can bring him Sasha's Sled, which runs over dirt as easily as snow.  Vastnya spends a hero point to cement a relationship with Igor, and they prepare to travel north, to Sasha's house amongst the pines."

That is far from the best possible example (marginal success at best on my "improvise plotline"!), but hopefully it shows what I am trying to say.

An add on idea would be, if you can hack writing some words for free, offering as a pdf download a full scenario based off of one of hte examples.  Include the character sheets as the heroes are at that stage of their evolution--including that maybe some have more unnasigned hero points than others--and a few page scenario.  So the narrator has access to a quick run scenario to get people hooked, and the players can see how evolved heros might look, but the narrator also gets a feel for how one scenario can fit into a broader arc.  And while it is extra work and cost for you, it doesn't cut into word count in the book, and those who aren't interested don't have to use it.

Whether you do an introductory scenario or just expanded examples or something else entirely, what I do like to see in an introductory scenario or the like is:

- use of the setting.  It should not be something that could happen just anywhere.  For Russia my first thought is set it in winter!  (but I have a thing about winter.....), or use icons prominently, or something unique like that.  At least for me, I'm tempted by a game more by the cool environment than by a funky rule set.  (they need to survive a blizzard on the way to Sasha's stead)

- exercise a broad range of character abilities.  The example scenario is apt to give the players an idea of what things will be all about, so if it focusses too much on one sort of ability, it skews everyone's perceptions of what the game is about.  (they need wilderness survival, social abilities, then can negotiate, steal, or fight to win the sled).

- Give outcomes as if it were part of a continuing campaign, to show how that works ("give the heroes a directed AP to buy some sort of relationship, prbably a negative one, with Sasha).

- Give lots of hooks that gets people thinking about what could happen next, what they would want to do....that is, although it is a stand alone, don't make it feel like everything is wrapped up forever. (Sasha's wife begs them to come back in six months, after her baby will be born, to spirit it away--if they promise to do so she helps them steal the sled.  The return for the baby isn't included in the scenario, but is there as an open hook).

- Give lots of usable, modular, parts, that can be scavenged for other uses even if the scenario isn't played.  Sasha, The Hunter of Men could be a villain in many other stories, his wife the seal-maiden is an example of a shape shifter, the wealthy house in the woods gives a good example of what such a thing would look like.  The contest over whether to be served salt shows a typical use of social standing, and so on.  Pretty much every part should be recyclable.

Sorry for babbling on at such length about my opinions on the subject :)

-Bryan

-

Quote from: Bryan_TSorry for babbling on at such length about my opinions on the subject

Oh heavens, Bryan, don't apologise: this was great stuff, with not a babble in sight!

All the best

Mark

This thread led me to send some ideas for formatting a scenario to Mark, off list.  I've now buffed those up for presentation more widely.  They aren't really HQ specific however, so I posted them in the RPG theory forum (not sure that was the best place, but since they are theoretical it sounded like the best fit).

The thread can be found at:

http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=14156

--Bryan