*
*
Home
Help
Login
Register
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
November 20, 2014, 03:03:23 PM

Login with username, password and session length
Forum changes: Editing of posts has been turned off until further notice.
Search:     Advanced search
275647 Posts in 27717 Topics by 4283 Members Latest Member: - otto Most online today: 79 - most online ever: 429 (November 03, 2007, 04:35:43 AM)
Pages: [1]
Print
Author Topic: Needing some Latin help here.  (Read 5103 times)
GreatWolf
Moderator
Member
*
Posts: 1155

designer of Dirty Secrets


WWW
« on: January 06, 2005, 08:48:40 PM »

So, I'm contemplating using the Liturgy of the Hours as someone (I think Ralph) suggested as a replacement for the moon phases.  Here's what I've got so far:

Moon Phase---- “Waxing” Hour----“Waning” Hour
New................Matins 12 a.m.......Matins  12 a.m.
Crescent.........Lauds  3 a.m..........Compline  9 p.m.
Half................Prime  6 a.m...........Vespers  6 p.m.
Gibbous..........Terce 9 a.m...........None   3 p.m.
Full.................Sext  12 p.m.........Sext  12 p.m.
Weeping.........Devil’s Hour.........Devil’s Hour

(Apologies for the ugly formatting.  It's the only way that I know to preserve something resembling table spacing.)

It may not look like it, but the opposing times actually end up being mirror images if viewed on a clock.  So, for instance, 3 a.m. is white from 12 to 3, with the remainder being black, and 9 p.m is white from 9-12, with the remainder being black.  So the iconography can still work.

However, "Devil's Hour" sticks out like a sore thumb here.  I need a nifty Latin name that fits the Devil's Hour into the Liturgy of the Hours.  For that matter, I'd settle for a nifty name that someone else could translate into Latin.  I'm doubting that the priests of Pheric would actually celebrate something called after the devil, but maybe a euphemistic approach.

Or persuade me that the Pheric priests would call it "Devil's Hour" (as long as you provide me with a Latin translation).  After all, the Catholics do have the "Devil's Advocate" when someone is being proposed for sainthood....
Logged

Seth Ben-Ezra
Dark Omen Games
producing Legends of Alyria, Dirty Secrets, A Flower for Mara
coming soon: Showdown
Ron Edwards
Global Moderator
Member
*
Posts: 16490


WWW
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2005, 08:59:56 PM »

Oh, perfect!

I dunno about the Latin, but I really like the conversion. Yay, Ralph!

Best,
Ron
Logged
suffusionofyellow
Member

Posts: 18


« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2005, 11:12:19 PM »

I do not know any details of Alyria, or the background behind what you are using the Latin for, so I'll present more details than you will probably need.

I have only found a Latin word for Devil in about half the places I have looked, but they all agree that it's diabolus. I attribute this to the fact that the concept of a single evil figure in the Christian sense didn't show up in widespread use until, well, Christianity.

The Latin for hour is hora.  In a couple of places, hora also seems to mean 'the twelfth part of a day or night'. So, it seems to me you could use hora on it's own if you wanted to. Assuming you literally want "The devil's hour", we get: hora diaboli. Latin grammar being what it is, you could write that as diaboli hora if you feel that looks/sounds cooler.

So what if you don't want to explicitly mention the Devil? I don't know what euphemisms you would use, but I'll present a couple here.

Malus is the Latin adjective for 'evil'. (I also came across a definition where it is a feminine noun for 'apple tree'. Insidious, isn't it?) There are three words for 'darkness', obscuritas, tenebrae and caligo. Of these, tenebrae seems to be the one most associated with night. Tenebrae is always plural, so 'evil darkness' works out to malae tenebrae. As above, that order can be switched around.

Anima means breath, wind or air, but is(was) commonly used to mean spirit.  Evil spirit == mala anima. Dark spirit == obscura anima. Dark, evil spirit == obscura mala anima.  Once again, mucking around with the order does not change the meaning, though translators may try to kill you.

I hope this helps. If you happen across a phrase you like better, let me know and I'll do my best to translate it into Latin.
Logged

Mark D. Eddy
Member

Posts: 157


« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2005, 06:05:11 AM »

Or Hora mortis, the hour of death. Well, I'm hoping that's grammatically correct -- it's from the Ave Maria: "Nunc et in hora mortis nostrae." That is, "Now and in the hour of our death."

Or you could ues "Blood hour" or  "hour of blood." I think sanguis is Latin for blood, but I have no idea how to decline it properly in this case.
Logged

Mark Eddy
Chemist, Monotheist, History buff

"The valiant man may survive
if wyrd is not against him."
Marhault
Member

Posts: 185


« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2005, 01:09:39 PM »

Well. . . There's essentially a prayer that is recited at each time, right?  It doesn't seem like too much of a stretch that they might pray for protection during that darkest of hours.

There might be some gold to be mined in the traditional uses of the Liturgy.
What are the prayers of each office?  (what are they praying for?)
Do the names themselves have meanings/translations?

Alyria specifics:
Do you have any idea what you want for that 3 p.m. office?
Is the differentiation between a.m. and p.m. strictly for the purposes of color?
Logged
Mark D. Eddy
Member

Posts: 157


« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2005, 05:39:41 AM »

As I understand it, the "prayer purpose" of each of the hours is as follows:

Matins: We are vigilant even when all else are asleep (Matins is also called Vigils).
Lauds: We rise early to praise God.
Prime through Nones: We are willing, as we go through our day of work, to stop and remember God.
Specifically:
Prime: In our preparation for the day, we confess our sins and pray for the well-being of the Church.
Tierce: After breaking our fast, we praise God and pray for those in authority.
Sext: At the mid-day, we reflect on God's grace and pray for those closest to us.
Nones: As we pause in mid-afternoon, we praise God and pray for the natural world (avoidance of disasters, and bounty of harvest).
Vespers: As the day comes to an end, and we light the evening lights, we praise God for the gifts of the day and pray for the needs of others.
Compline: As we prepare for sleep, we pray for ourselves.

Lauds means praise. Prime through nones are one, three, six, and nine (for the first through the ninth hours of the day). Vespers has to do with sunset, I believe. I'm not sure of the derivation of Matins or Compline.
Logged

Mark Eddy
Chemist, Monotheist, History buff

"The valiant man may survive
if wyrd is not against him."
GreatWolf
Moderator
Member
*
Posts: 1155

designer of Dirty Secrets


WWW
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2005, 02:00:05 PM »

Quote from: Marhault

Alyria specifics:
Do you have any idea what you want for that 3 p.m. office?
Is the differentiation between a.m. and p.m. strictly for the purposes of color?


I don't quite understand the first question.

As to the second, it is largely for color.  I figure that someone could use a PM name (e.g. None) if he wanted to suggest that the Trait (or Attribute) was slipping in the direction of darkness.  However, this wouldn't have any system weight to it.  So no, I still don't have waxing and waning.  ;-P
Logged

Seth Ben-Ezra
Dark Omen Games
producing Legends of Alyria, Dirty Secrets, A Flower for Mara
coming soon: Showdown
Shreyas Sampat
Member

Posts: 970


WWW
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2005, 03:28:28 PM »

Quote from: GreatWolf
Quote from: Marhault

Alyria specifics:
Do you have any idea what you want for that 3 p.m. office?
Is the differentiation between a.m. and p.m. strictly for the purposes of color?


I don't quite understand the first question.

I think that Marhault misunderstood "None" to mean "there is nothing here' rather than "This is the name of this hour."
Logged

GreatWolf
Moderator
Member
*
Posts: 1155

designer of Dirty Secrets


WWW
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2005, 05:45:48 PM »

Quote from: Shreyas Sampat

I think that Marhault misunderstood "None" to mean "there is nothing here' rather than "This is the name of this hour."


Oh!  I understand now.

Seems like this might be a good thing to clarify in the text, too, eh?
Logged

Seth Ben-Ezra
Dark Omen Games
producing Legends of Alyria, Dirty Secrets, A Flower for Mara
coming soon: Showdown
GreatWolf
Moderator
Member
*
Posts: 1155

designer of Dirty Secrets


WWW
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2005, 08:22:18 PM »

You know, funny things happen when you look back over your manuscript.  You discover that you've named things already and then forgotten.  Like this Devil's Hour thing.  Apparently the Keepers call this time the Rite of Perpetual Vigilance.  One of their number climbs to the top of Kron, turns off the clock, and waits with an hourglass, counting the moments, until he can restart the clock.  So, I guess that I'm requesting a nifty translation of "Perpetual Vigilance".
Logged

Seth Ben-Ezra
Dark Omen Games
producing Legends of Alyria, Dirty Secrets, A Flower for Mara
coming soon: Showdown
suffusionofyellow
Member

Posts: 18


« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2005, 01:33:32 PM »

Hmm. Perpetual vigilance. Well this is what I came up with:

Two words for 'perpetual':
sempiternus - continual, eternal, everlasting
adsiduus - continual in one place, constant, persisting without remission

Two for 'vigilance':
vigilantia - watchfullness, vigilance
diligentia - carefullness, attentiveness, accuracy

So, each of these words work, each representing a subtle shading of meaning. I don't know what you are looking for. Vigilantia is the literal translation but if we are dealing with time measured by the moment, diligentia is exceedingly appropriate. Adsiduus seems to be the one that implies timelessness, instead of eternity. However, I'll decline all four combinations both because it is relatively little work and because I have no idea what you really want/need.

sempiterna vigilantia
sempiterna diligentia
adsidua vigilantia
adsidua diligentia

Now, I don’t know if you are interested at all, but ‘rite of perpetual vigilance’ is merely a case switch away. Rite is simply ritus. We throw the above into genitive (in this case, just add an ‘e’ to the end of everything), and you get ‘rite of perpetual vigilance’:
 
ritus sempiternae vigilantiae
ritus sempiternae diligentiae
ritus adsiduae vigilantiae
ritus adsiduae diligentiae

Looking at that, I can’t remember if there is something that needs to be done about the iae. If you decide to use one of those last four, it’s pronounced like ‘tea eye’.
Logged

Marhault
Member

Posts: 185


« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2005, 05:32:30 PM »

Shreyas is right.  Sorry about that, please disregard the question.
Logged
GreatWolf
Moderator
Member
*
Posts: 1155

designer of Dirty Secrets


WWW
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2005, 09:39:46 PM »

Sempiterna vigilantia probably captures the shades of meaning that I want, although now I know the root of "assiduous".  I wonder if vigilantia sempiterna would roll off the tongue better, especially as it hearkens back to Vigils, which is the older name for Matins.

Thanks a lot for your help, Josh.
Logged

Seth Ben-Ezra
Dark Omen Games
producing Legends of Alyria, Dirty Secrets, A Flower for Mara
coming soon: Showdown
Stefan / 1of3
Member

Posts: 88


« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2005, 02:31:15 PM »

You could also use "vigilitia perpetua". That's probably a good idea, since even people who don't speak Latin can make up the meaning.


I'd say, "sempiterna" is closer to "eternal" than to "perpetual".
Logged
Pages: [1]
Print
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC
Oxygen design by Bloc
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!