Midnight game prep: A Dornish Crown

[Kerstin Schmidt]

And here what I have so far for the spirit of winter and the heroquest:  


Xione, Spirit of Winter

Not just one NPC.  I have decided that the winds howling around the Pike consist of three groups of entities:  
-   the souls of the clan of orcs slaughtered by the first Dorns ever to take the Pike and their guardian spirit;  now joined by the ghost of Charankh who was able to open the way to the otherworld in life and hovers on the threshold in death;  
-   the souls of the Dorns who fell in taking the Pike, and of those killed later when the orcs flowed back in force;  and  
-   Xione, a spirit of winter bound in ancient times by the elthedar, the elves' ancestors.  Xione's binding is the reason this local sliver of spirit world remained accessible from the physical world when Izrador fell and connections to other planes were mostly severed.  
The raging souls of an entire orc clan (young and all), angry dead Dornish warriors and two spirits, one orc-bound, one bound long before Izrador's Fall by a people that has been extinct for millennia.   Quite a Midnightish mess.  I should be able to do something cool with that.  For example, see the following.  

Notes for the heroquest:  

   -  The original hero's name was Reifels Windrunner, a Redguard prince of an earlier age.  He was aided by a Dornish shieldmaiden who married him at the foot of the mountain, thereby ending an old feud between clans and bringing their followers together against the orcs.  (Katrin can still aid Reifels without marrying him, I need a sufficiently Katrin-ish name or other connection for the shieldmaiden so she'll know her presence is still a benefit.)  

   -  Three times on the way up she saved his life.  (Much room for variation here, if desired.)  

   -  In modern-day Katrin's and Reifels's heroquest, Charankh and the orc guardian attempt to distract Katrin from her purpose by showing her flashes of defenceless orc children butchered by Dornish blades, Tam dying further down the hill (especially if he isn't in the heroquest at all), the chained Charankh's shock and ruptured scream as she falls (again and again) under Katrin's blow, etc.  Echoes of the haunting from earlier good to include here, too.  

   -  At the top of the mountain was a round white mound, which the Dorns soaked crimson with the blood of their fallen enemies.  

   -  What the myth doesn't say (or perhaps the myth does say so but Reifels lied to Katrin) is that those "fallen enemies" included Dorns rising from the dead and joining the orcs in the defence of their home and sacred place, as well as orc children slaughtered over the mound to supply more blood, and even the Halfling slaves the Dorns brought in their baggage train.  (In the early days of their conquest of the continent, the Dorns enslaved Halflings – long before Izrador ever got his shadowy little claws on them.)

   -  When all orcs of the Pike lay dead on the mound and no bits of it remained white, the mound cracked and opened into a chamber, which contained the iron headband that became the Dornish Crown.  

   -  In modern-day Katrin's and Reifels's heroquest, I might have Reifels take a position opposed to Katrin's.  If she refuses to butcher orc children etc., he'll be the ruthless one.  If she is prepared to kill whoever it takes to get at the Crown, he will falter.  

   -  If the blood sacrifice is not made, two women's ghosts appear:  Reifels's insane mother and Charankh, telling the heroes that another way to open the mound is for either of them to kill the other.  If Katrin has responded to Charankh's hauntings and understands she has done her wrong in killing her defenceless, and has refused to butcher orc young, Charankh will aid her because she has been understood and because being from a matriarchal and war-focussed culture, she wants the warrior female to rule, not the crippled male.  She will back Katrin and goad her to kill Reifels, while Reifels's mother will recognise her son and support him against Katrin.  If Charankh remains hostile to Katrin, Reifels's mother will be too confused to know her son, and will insist that Katrin as the "last surviving princess" spill "that poor cripple's blood and end our sufferings" and take the Crown.  (Now if we ever get to a point like this, Tam has to turn up to complete the mess.  He could even offer to sacrifice himself to complete the quest.  How's that?)

Pretty rough draft so far, but I'm really liking the drift.  Much indebted to you Mike, for some wonderful ideas to work with.

[Kerstin Schmidt]

WOW.

I'm so glad you liked it.

Thanks.  

More on this thread in a bit, just wanted to say thanks.

Woo-hoo.

It's fantastic.  I only wish I'd had it when I first started my game.  That, and a copy of HeroQuest.  
The ideas in Fury tend to get twisted into new things by the time I use them in play (such as aging Roland by a generation or two...), but that's simply what I do to everything (sigh), including my own stuff.

[Kerstin Schmidt]

And here are prep notes for the other PC, Apari.  The player will be back on Thursday and will be playing Apari in HQ for the first time.  

PC:  Apari Ghostwalker

Keywords:  
Jungle Elf 17
Ghostwalker 9w (Two-Dagger Fighting, Use Jungle Poison, Hide, Keen Sense, Wilderness Survival, Track, Endurance, Identify Target)
Swamp magic 13 (Draw Water, Waking Nightmare, Find Path, Ghost Flicker)
Pair of Covenant Daggers 13 (magic abilities to be defined as we go)
Abilities increased:  
Two-Dagger Fighting 19w2, Keen Sense 19w, Wilderness Survival 19w, Waking Nightmare (feat) 3w, Commanding Presence 3w2

No relationships yet.  He'll get three relationships to existing NPCs of his choice for free.  I have an idea who he'll be likely to choose.  Still, I'd have liked to confirm this with him pre-game, but my experience with this particular player is that online negotiation doesn't work well (he hates writing stuff down), so we'll have to do it at the start of the session.  

I know this character a great deal less well than Katrin.  Apari has gone through some major changes in converting to HeroQuest.  He was a quiet, shy Channeler before and now is focussed on dagger fighting, with a commanding presence and trailing wisps of mist after him wherever he goes (player's idea).  

The abilities the player put points into mostly say "powergamer" to me, although the Commanding Presence is a result of Apari talking a racist Wood Elf into a new attitude at a conference, a scene the player asked for and which we all (including him) enjoyed a lot.  So he's hungry to see his character as powerful, no big surprise for someone who's been used to playing DnD.  Fine by me, I'm happy to provide him with opportunities to shine in a Clint-Eastwood-Elf capacity if that's what he wants.  

He has asked me to add an ability to communicate with "spirits" to the Ghostwalker keyword.  I think he means ghosts of dead people, but have to confirm with him.  I'm definitely happy with him having that kind of ability because it'll give us more chances to explore cool and unique stuff with the character.  (Including getting him into wonderful messes of course.)  Not sure whether I should have him take it as a separate ability though?  I don't really want to suppress him for reasons of balance (he's heard that word a lot in the past), but am I making his Ghostwalker keyword too broad here?  The concept for the keyword is a specially trained assassin-type jungle warrior – perhaps we could say that you get into that occupation only if you are haunted/protected/chosen by ghosts (or spirits, whether that's Midnight spirits or Glorantha-type spirits is yet another question).  Not sure what the player wants and not sure whether I'm overextending that keyword.  An alternative might be to put the ghost-talk ability into the magic keyword (currently a "swamp" affinity, but we could change that to something like "mist spirits", "fog of the dead" or something - always assuming we stay with a theism-type concept).  

He also keeps telling me that he has a "story" in mind about what the character has been doing in the two months of downtime since we last played.  I suspect it may involve the ghost of his dead wife (half-mentioned backstory) from whom he recently got his pair of covenant daggers (result of our negotiations when we converted to HeroQuest).  If he doesn't write his story before we play on Thursday, I'll see whether I can invite him into playing it out in a flashback.  


Setup Events/Bangs

I have already told the player that Katrin is currently off on her own and that I'll be offering Apari a number of options, each of which will be equally valid.  Remembering his preferences, I should also stress to him that each option will involve plenty of chances of combat happening.  


Currently I'm thinking:  

The racist wood elf Inahas offers Apari a job as an official emissary to Apari's native people, the Jungle Elves, to try and get them into a fighting alliance with the wood elves.  The Jungle Elves remain isolationist and limit themselves to fighting demons (Midnight demons, not Gloranthan demons necessarily) in the jungles of the Aruun.  

The old jungle elf Atunga asks Apari to turn Inahas down and investigates the matter of the Snow Elves instead.  Apparently Snow Elves won't even be represented at the upcoming elven strategy council, and Atunga suspects some sort of racist foul play that in his experience will invariably have repercussions on the other elven minority, the Jungle Elves.  

A local gnome trader, Wendol, brings accumulating letters from Arrenu (Katrin's undead ex-lover) that report major troops movements and an impending Shadow offensive from the south-east ... and contain an offer to establish contact to a "possible defector of the highest rank".  (The Night King Jahzir, in fact.)  
Wendol's appearance with the letters addressed to Katrin will also draw Apari's attention to the fact that both Katrin and Tam have disappeared.  (And so has Bernt, although he's easy to find for an elf:  the wood elves arrested him when he guided Katrin to the Passing Stone, and since he's not saying why he was trespassing beyond the no-humans line they're not letting him go.)  

Which already gives a number of options:  
-  Go south on a political mission as Inahas wants.  Lots of opportunities for demon-fighting, possible homecoming issues, and he'll likely end up directly in the path of the south-eastern prong of the Shadow offensive.  
-  Investigate the Snow Elf issue for Atunga.  This will likely lead Apari north to the Snow Elves, ie close to Katrin.  
-  Meet Arrenu and negotiate terms for the defector on behalf of the wood elves.  
-  Track down and rejoin Katrin.  The obvious way to do this is to go through Bernt, which will again result in Apari going to the Snow Elves first because Bernt has no way of knowing that Katrin ended up with Roland.  

In addition to which, the ghost of Apari's wife might well have her own agenda if I can get the player to trust me and include her into the game.  

And that's not even mentioning that since last time we played, Apari has become responsible for an area of forest and a chamber with a lingering magical "echo" of a "mother angel" in it that the player was keen to explore further at the time – in order to gain additional magic powers.  If I offer a prospect of magic powers (rather than tell the player that Apari has made a little progress with the "echo" but understands he would need months of time to really benefit from it), he might still be interested.  I'm leaning towards suggesting that this would take too much time.  Though if he's really keen, I can work with this, too.  The "baby angel" who Apari and Katrin saved from being eaten by spider demons at birth has gone off "to find his people", so an alliance with those beings might become an opportunity.  

On a side note, I haven't decided how to convert the "angels" and "demons". I used DnD angel and demon stats for the creatures in the event.  The pregnant angel had been hurtled to Aryth in the wake of Izrador's fall (according to the baby, the Big Dark One was wrestling the Sister of Light as he fell).  This makes the angel a minion of a goddess from a pantheon, which sounds like creatures from a theist otherworld to me;  that about right?  


Assuming that the session is about evenly divided between the two players, Apari's player will have 1.5-2 hours of screen time in this first session. I suspect I won't need much more than the above in the way of setup, other than - of course – an opportunity or three for Apari-Eastwood to shine fighting a whole bunch of orcs or local spider demons.

[Mike Holmes]

Wow, lots of cool stuff. I have less comments this time.

First, you commented after one of the techniques that I gave you that it made you want to play in my game. Something to realize, knowing what to do, and actually doing it consistently are two different things. That is, I only wish that I had the presence of mind to do all of the things that I suggest here all of the time. While I know these techniques, I also forget them a lot, and only use them intermittently.

What I'm trying to say is that if you did see my game, you might be seriously underwhelmed by it. Oh, I think I do fine, but it's far from the perfection that might be painted by my words here that I have lots of time to think about. Play is a highly imperfect thing, and that goes for everybody.

The point is that you should consider that you're game as it currently is, is probably for all intents and purposes as good as mine is. I mean, you seem to be having fun, and that's the only criteria. Can your game improve? Perhaps. But that doesn't mean that you haven't already graduated.

There's nothing really complicated about these techniques. Would you agree? I mean, it's just a matter of knowing them generally and using them. It's not supposed to be hard, and I don't think it is. We've gone through an extensive treatment of your play, but, if anything, I've overdone it to illustrate.

The follow up to which is that I'm going to back off now, because there's really little for me to do. I can't find anything with your prep that I'd change that doesn't come down to taste really at this point. In fact, now I'm learning from you. I'm going to use the NPC enumeration that you used back there from now on. Really good idea that.


I have some other comments outside of technique, however. Didn't think it was going to be that easy to get rid of me, did you? ;-)

On the subject of a "How to" book on prep of this sort, I've been helping out a little with somebody who's already on it. So it's on the way.

A theist being like you're looking for above is a Daimone. I'm not sure where you want to go with the whole "otherworld" thing here. Scott's original conversion said that there was only "the Shadow" as an otherworld, and that all other worship was misapplied. That is, that there's only one otherworld according to his reading. This actually seems to work with what you said about people's understanding. That said, if you want to get more complicated, why not?

Why, oh why is Apari being presented to a separate R-Map? This is what I'd do. Figure out a reason to say he's arrived at the Pike, and then figure out a set of "grabby" notes for the NPCs in terms of his character. Yes he's an elf - contrive reasons that they all want something from him, too.

This has two effects: one, the characters will end up in scenes together, and get to interact. Two, the actions of each player character will cause a synthesis of action that will reflect onto the other PCs. Basically it's like adding another NPC to the R-Map, but one that really shakes things up.

OK, one more sorta technique note, more just personal advice, really. You said that you weren't sure how you'd do all of the prep justice. You won't. Time to get over that now. Some of what you have will just not make it to play at all. And that's OK. It's the nature of this style of play that some of what you want to throw out there will just be out of date before you can present it. Compare this with the old form of prep, however, where you either had to railroad people to the "encounters" or loose all the prep that this entailed. Overall, you'll find that more of your prep here will be pertinent, or at least what comes into play does so without the GM having to "force" it to happen in terms of player responses.

Anyhow, you'll get used to it.

Mike

[Kerstin Schmidt]

There's nothing really complicated about these techniques. Would you agree? I mean, it's just a matter of knowing them generally and using them.

It comes much more easily to me than struggling to run a linear scenario, yes.  

And btw It wasn't mention of one technique that makes me think I'd like your game. It's many things, not only the advice you give here but the way to talk to people, the way your players and you talk about little things in your game, stuff like that.

We've gone through an extensive treatment of your play, but, if anything, I've overdone it to illustrate.

I was glad to have the overdoing, if that's what it was.  As I've said earlier, I learn best from doing things and from specific examples.  

In fact I'll have another bunch of questions in a moment, if you're still not fed up with answering them.  :)

In fact, now I'm learning from you. I'm going to use the NPC enumeration that you used back there from now on. Really good idea that.

Wonderful that I can give something back, even if it's a tiny thing. You do realise that I was simply organising the NPC questions you suggested in a list.    

I'm not sure where you want to go with the whole "otherworld" thing here. Scott's original conversion said that there was only "the Shadow" as an otherworld, and that all other worship was misapplied.

IIRC the version of Scott's conversion I looked at a while ago had worship of the Shadow as misapplied as well, because Izrador is treated as a monotheistic God (wizardry) while in reality he's one of the deities of a pantheon (theism).  

Ok, this thread has long gone beyond prep for a session or two, so I guess I might as well discuss the rest of it here.  I haven't a clear answer for the metaphysics question yet, not one that's easy to relate to the Gloranthan model anyway.  

According to what I remember of the Midnight books, Izrador fell bodily onto Aryth and the other gods drew the Veil shutting him and the entire planet off from their otherworld. Or possibly it was Izrador who drew the Veil to protect himself to heal in peace. In any case, Izrador is now in the physical world (I like that a lot) and he is the only god people have access to because of the Veil.  

In my interpretation, he is also dead. Or undead, depending. From the very start of the game I had this image of an immense black corpse rotting slowly away into the polar ice in the north.  His chest cavity has cracked open and in it, right where the heart should be, is a vile black lake - the father of all Mirrors.  In one way you could look at the network of Black Mirrors spread across the continent as some kind of surrogate blood vessels for the god, fed by blood from human sacrifices.  

So if there's any kind of Shadow otherworld in my game, it's going to be in the Mirrors.  

There's also the inaccessible gods' otherworld, however this isn't too relevant to our game. We decided at an early stage that no one in the group was enthusiastic about exploring possibilities of piercing the Veil and asking the gods for help against their fallen cousin.  

More relevant to my game are the slivers of otherworld that I created and that the PCs have encountered in few scenarios.  I didn't know about Gloranthan metaphysics at the time and the players had said they were interesting in "world" stuff more than "religious" stuff, so the locales I created tended to be echoes of other times and places, such as a brief court intrigue in an earlier age of the world.  My explanation was that souls who aren't trapped in their bodies to become Fell and don't become ghosts will try to get through the Veil into the afterlife. They can't actually get through all the way, but they can get in and the Veil will absorb some of their memories and dramatic or tragic events, echoes of which may happen over and over again.  (In one case an entire village of elves had been replaying a tragic betrayal and massacre of a human diplomatic envoy party for 3 millennia or so.) We called PCs crossing over into those other-time-places "going into the Veil".  

Now obviously I could say that the Veil also contains slivers of various otherworlds seeping through from the far side or cut off and trapped in the Veil barrier.  Only I'm not sure how much it will add to the game to introduce full-blown Gloranthan metaphysics at this stage in the campaign.  The amount of learning involved for the three of us seems a bit offputting to me, that's why I've been edging around the question.  

Why, oh why is Apari being presented to a separate R-Map?

Number of reasons, not sure how good some of them are.

One, just to be clear Apari might well end up on the Katrin's R-map very soon, if that is what the player wants.  

Two, I feel I want to give the player some choices here.  All the time while we were playing DnD, players had to compromise heavily on character development so the "party" could stay together. Now Lucy has grasped her chance at freedom and has had Katrin run off to the North.  If I have Apari go after her automatically, I'm doing a very similar thing to enforcing a "party", plus in this case I'm forcing the player to go along with what another player decided would be cool for her PC.  

Three, I've created the R-map heavily around Katrin and around Lucy's preferences. At first I did that expecting to wrap this scenario up quickly, then later I decided that we could go on with it but I'd give Apari other options if he wanted.  I'm not sure I can present the Pike situation in a way that will satisfy both players.  For Lucy I need complications, melodram and angst.  For Apari's player, it's got to be clear-cut lines and action or he'll get frustrated.  Subtle stuff is not for him.  

All that said, I do see your points.  I'll try to think of ways to grab Apari into the Pike map. I have to do that anyway in case the players want the characters to get back together quickly.  I'm not optimistic, is all. :)


Now if Apari were to go through the snow elves first, for example, I can give him tons of action against orcs, I can give him chances to explore the elves-against-elves racism theme that he likes so much, a diplomatic conflict that'll be much more straightforward than Katrin's and hence more satisfying to the player;  and I can try to juggle scenes in a way that shows both players they are working towards a common goal (pulling the northern front together) and, with the Shadow offensive, are playing against time.  And I'm sure once things start moving I'll find ways to link those two R-maps (I've got Nollorn on the Pike already) or get the PCs to interact in some other way.  



Hm.  I may actually suggest a snow elves mission to the player.  (Have to negotiate that pre-play so he's happy. He's still terrified of having a GM framing his PC into a scene, but when I give him a chance to think about it beforehand and check back with me that he's not losing out on some other things he "wanted to do first", he'll be fine.)

You said that you weren't sure how you'd do all of the prep justice. You won't.

Well, I'm used to prep not getting used in play, that's normal even in a more linear style. That's fine by me.  

What I find a bit intimidating is that I have all these fine ideas for bangs, scenes, buildups and complications, but when I'm in the middle of running the game I find it hard to stay collected enough to remember them.  This simpy takes practice I guess, and learning how to organise my notes in a way that will help me access the information.  

Then also I think I'm not putting enough pressure on with the prep that I do use.  I suspect I'm shying away from building pressure, just as I'm shying away from stomping PCs.  Did you notice I didn't mention anything about stomping in my prep?   You have convinced me that it's a good and important thing to have.  In fact Lucy has been asking for it. (Although she always asks for crushing defeat, she did that even in a hardcore Gamist DnD game we were playing in where it could lead only to grief.) So - I want to do it, yet I go away and do nothing.  Coward.

Ok, solutions.  Can you see potential for stomping Katrin in the prep that I've got? Preferably very soon?  If so please tell me because if I need to start thinking about cool nasty things to happen.  Grr.

[Kerstin Schmidt]

Too late to edit.  Here's an example.  I'm able to see stomping potential afterwards, you see.  Katrin defying Roland over the orc would have been an opportunity and I regret not using it.  In the actual situation in the scene, I was psychologically unable.  Or something.

[Bryan_T]

Just to comment on a couple of the topics you raised.

From what you said, going to the veil = a heroquest.  Even in Glorantha most quests are done to re-play the deeds of heroes of more historical perspective (although they were often repeating the deeds of demi-gods or gods).  The "hero plane" where most heroquests take place is basically trapped history, which in many ways sounds muck like the slivers caught in the veil.

The key points of a heroquest is that you are leaving the here and now and going into an eternal past, that without some sort of story to guide you, you don't know where you will end up, and that you can gain power, in various forms, for doing so.  It sounds like the first two are definately the case with the veil fragments.  I don't know about the third aspect, bringing back new power, and how that matches your view of the veil.

As for stomping, I'm not an expert but I have a few scattered comments:

Stomping her in the conflict over the Orc was not, I think, the right thing to do, because she was spending hero points to win (two of them I think, even?).  The use of hero points says "I want to win this one!"  So I'd say you played that one right.

As a player I think stomping is most satisfying under one or more of three conditions: it is a result of what my character did earlier, it is an example of a force that is too tough for me currently in my area of strength, or it is uses my weaknesses.  

The first would most obviously be an action flowing out of the orc thing--although she won that one clearly so it could not be the "same" argument.  But if wanted to put down this threat to his authority he could pick an argument about a different thing, when he was ready for it, had community support, etc.  But something flowing out of her interaction with his son could also be interesting, less obvious but able to move the story in new directions.

The second would work well with a follow-on from the Orc situation perhaps.  That when he is ready, it doesn't matter how impassioned she is and how much she cares, in this place he'll prevail.  That gives her motivation to find new abilities and allies, or else a reason to question her commitment.

The third makes me think of the issue of her lover.  She's given you an openning there, pretty much said "make this hard on me!" with the set up.  So clobber her with it.

Looking through the set-up, one idea would be to maybe follow through on one of the bangs to show if she supports the snow elves.  If she comes across all noble again, Veddia knows she has to be crushed, and helps Roland (multiple attacker penalties!), possibly dredging up her history, involvement with Tam, etc, while Roland goes on about "you dare try to tell me what to do in my own hall!"  Between them they should be able to take her down (although she might be able to take one of them to defeat, depending on how she handles it).  

Immediate consequence is being sent out of the hall, while the "damage" being reduced ability to influence Roland.   Thematically this would emphasize the divisions between the non-shadow folk, and show that while she has great intentions she has over-reached herself as she does not yet have the experience, allies, and ability to bring unity.  Story-wise it gives all sorts of possible what is next things, with good odds that the player will help to drive that part.

But that is just one possible suggestion of how you could do it, from the sort of thing that I'd enjoy as a player.  You know her vastly better than I ever could from reading the forums, and you know where you want to take the game, so you should be able to see many other enjoyable ways to stomp her :-)

-Bryan

[Mike Holmes]

And btw It wasn't mention of one technique that makes me think I'd like your game. It's many things, not only the advice you give here but the way to talk to people, the way your players and you talk about little things in your game, stuff like that.

Thanks for the kind remarks. My point was merely that you know enough of this stuff that I'd probably have as much fun in your game as you might in mine.

Wonderful that I can give something back, even if it's a tiny thing. You do realise that I was simply organising the NPC questions you suggested in a list.    

Sure, but I never thought to list the NPCs that way. What I do is have an NPC list, and a separate list of bangs which include some of the NPCs. Thus their motives are encoded into the bangs. The problem with this is that if I reference an NPC that doesn't have a bang associated with them, they might be duds for the moment. In a way I think you've almost overdone it - the idea of a relationship map is not to give every character a reason to grab the PCs. The idea of the R-Map is to have some few characters grab the PCs to get them in contact with the map, and then have the entanglements of the map itself cause action internally.

For example, you have a wife who's dissatisfied with her husband, and looking for a lover. So the wife NPC grabs the character by making a pass at him. The husband has no "grab" for the PC, but now is easy to get involved. He learns about the pass, or about the affair if it's happening, and now wants the PC embarrassed, or worse. So he now has a strong motive for interaction, and comes to the PC. See how that works? You don't have to give the husband a reason to grab the NPC, the map does the work for you. All you have to do is get the PC involved with the map, and bangs will suggest themselves.

I haven't a clear answer for the metaphysics question yet, not one that's easy to relate to the Gloranthan model anyway.  

Well, it's not really neccessary to parallel the Gloranthan model precisely. All that's really neccessary is to come up with a cosmology that you want to work with. Then you can kinda pick and choose how magic works based on that.

So if there's any kind of Shadow otherworld in my game, it's going to be in the Mirrors.

OK, but is this the only available otherworld? I mean, this sounds like the homeworld of the Astiraxes and such, but is it also where the dead go? Is it also where the spirits are that shamans deal with? Or are there other otherworlds that are not blocked off by the Veil.

There's also the inaccessible gods' otherworld, however this isn't too relevant to our game.

Cool. What I'd do is just have it in the back of your mind that theism is possible if somebody does pierce the Veil somehow, but currently it's not possible.

We called PCs crossing over into those other-time-places "going into the Veil".

Sounds to me like this is definitely otherworld itself. Possibly part of the Shadow Otherworld from what you've said, but possibly an otherworld of it's own. Which way do you see it? I'm imagining a sort of purgatory where the souls await the opening of the Veil so that they can go to the otherworlds beyond. Think there might be some potential in that?

Now obviously I could say that the Veil also contains slivers of various otherworlds seeping through from the far side or cut off and trapped in the Veil barrier.  

Nah. Again, I'm not suggesting that you find ways to include other Gloranthan worlds or magic types. Just that you find the otherworlds that you want to deal with.

The amount of learning involved for the three of us seems a bit offputting to me, that's why I've been edging around the question.  

Well, again, just decide on what otherworlds you have, and then we can implement them. The only study you'll have to do is in knowing how it works for your own game. Which can be kept pretty simple if you want.

One, just to be clear Apari might well end up on the Katrin's R-map very soon, if that is what the player wants.  

By what mechanism? I mean, at the very least, have some NPC on the new map offering a choice to Apari to go to the other map.

Two, I feel I want to give the player some choices here.  All the time while we were playing DnD, players had to compromise heavily on character development so the "party" could stay together.

Yes, but the point of these techniques is so that the player no longer has to do the party thing.

But did Lucy have a choice of what R-Map to go to? No, you just made one and presented it for play, right? I mean, even if she had previously chosen to go to Roland, you could have had her stumble over a ring of bandits instead, and had that be the R-Map, no?

There is a form of play called "open" play that has some similarities to the R-Map/Bang method, in that the player is literally allowed to do whatever they please, and the GM completely follows their lead. The problem with this method is that you can't do any prep at all for it. You have to completely wing everything. And it's really hard to make bangs, because you can't have a relationship map and such set up before hand, or pre-thought out Bangs.

The "problem" that the "Open" method of play is trying to solve is ensuring that the players are never railroaded - that they can always make any choice based solely on the motives of their characters, and no other metagame reason. The R-Map/Bang techniques solve this problem, however, without throwing out the ability to do prep. Because, since Bangs give the ability to the player to make relevant decisions, there's no railroading.

Again, railroading, that most abhorent thing that all players decry, always comes down to meaning that the GM is simply making decisions that the player would like to be making. If your play offers the player decisions that he's having fun making, then it's not railroading.

So all you have to do is to ensure that the R-Map is grabby for the other player, too, and prepare bangs relevant to the character in question.

Three, I've created the R-map heavily around Katrin and around Lucy's preferences.

This is your only valid argument. But the thing is that you can alter the map. Remember, if Lucy hasn't seen any particular character motive, or anything that you've prepared, then it's not yet established, and can be altered. At this point that's practically the whole map. In fact, even if she has seen some motives and such, these can be ammended to have been tricks or just partial motives or whatever. And you can always just add entirely new motives to characters - they can be complex in their drives, too.

For Apari's player, it's got to be clear-cut lines and action or he'll get frustrated.  Subtle stuff is not for him.  

Fine. Uh, just for an example, we'll use the big GM club, and say that Apari is captured by Roland's men. In fact, consider eliminating Nollorn, and simply inserting Apari where you had Nollorn before. Or have them get captured together.

-----------
Aside: when doing a radical sort of shift like this as GM do two things to make sure that it's satisfying to the player. First, make the description of it make the character look really good. Uh, he evaded Roland's men for days, and then finally he had the bad luck to run into a pack of orcs who drove him into the hands of Roland's men - but not before he'd slain a dozen of the orcs. Something like that. The capture isn't his fault, it was unavoidable due to luck, and he almost got away despite the bad luck and conditions. As always, make sure you don't "deprotagonize" the character.

Second, make the narration about the events leading up short, and end in your first bang. If the player sees that you're simply setting up an opportunity for him to make a fun decision, then he'll have no problem with it.

Basically, you can "railroad" as much as you want as long as it's not really railroading. That is the GM has full authority to simply fiat things along just as long as it's to get things to where the player has control. This is no different than the stomping thing. No it's not "fair." Players don't want fair, they want to interact with the game in a way that makes their characters cool. Sometimes unfair is the best way to do that.
------------

OK, anyhow, now you have Apari on the scene, now what? Give him appropriate Bangs. He has a chance to escape, but he can't save Nollorn in the next cell if he leaves now. If he leaves, he runs into Reifels out riding and being attacked by orcs. If he stays, some abusive guards throw him in a pit with a troll (but he recognizes it as from a tribe that has helped his people in the past). Uh, that other noble plays some political card and has him released from prison if he swears to stay nearby and help him politically. If he accepts, then this new master is attacked by assassins. If he's still in jail, he discovers a secret passage to a catacomb below his cell, where all manner of things to fight exist, chasms to leap or swing over, all that good action stuff. Uh, he finds a suit of old magical Dornish armor, and can't get it across the chasm nohow. Does he leave it, or look for another exit?

OK, that last bang is lame, but that's because I'm grasping for quick examples here. Here's an important point, however:

Conflicts and contests are two different things. Bangs are about setting up conflicts, meaning they put character values into question. But that doesn't mean that the action near a Bang, any associated contests, have to match the conflict in form. For example, you have several Bangs that seem to be about where he's going next. But none of that is about the character being powerful or getting to be cool in that sort of way. Sure the missions have action potentially, but why not start with some action? Inahas's offer for the position requires Apari to kill some bothersome human on hand to seal the deal (who just happens to be a tough warrior). Or, if he refuses, perhaps Inahas is angered, and sends an assassin of his own to get Apari. The point is to immediately follow the Bang with relevant action for the character. So if there are decisions X and Y, X leads immdiately to one fight, and Y leads immediately to another.

See the point? Just because a bang requires some diplomatic decision or something, doesn't mean that it can't lead directly into contests that are of the sort that the player wants to see. An interesting fact is that the player really doesn't have a ton of say over whether or not he wins a contest - though they do have Hero Points. So usually contests are actually best as
ways to set up bangs, or as the result of bangs. It's the decision to fight that's the narrativism, the acutal fight is just an extension of the results of that decision. What the outcome of the contest is, says nothing about the character, really. Actually selecting the augments says quite a bit, however.

Anyway, as to Apari, if the player is interested in the spirit stuff, focus on it. I would not only give him the abilities in question, but I'd go so far as to make play a lot about that stuff. Always go with what the players show interest in. He's the head of a chunk of forest, and that seems important? Well, then use that as a motivator...

I'm leaning towards suggesting that this would take too much time.

Why, oh why? The player is interested, hammer on this stuff. That doesn't mean that the character has to hang around the woods, however. No, tell the player that Apari was hanging out there, and that the woods echo told him that he could get some neato magic power if he goes to the Pike, and gets the magic whatsis that's somewhere in the possession of the humans.

Or something of that nature, you get the idea. It's not neccessary to have motivating elements always be right near the characters. The character can have pressure from them from things they've done in the past. Heck, characters can even have relationships to dead folks, and it works just fine, as the character is haunted by the memory of the dead person.

So make sure that Apari has a relationship with his wife - don't even ask the player, just say, "You have a relationship with your wife at the level of your homeland for free." Whether or not her ghost gets into play, then, isn't that important. Just throw bangs at the character about his memory of his wife. Have somebody imply that her death is no big loss, because she was cheating on him before she died. Whether it's true or not is yet another separate bang.


And what's this regarding Katrin? An undead ex-lover? As Westly would say, "Why didn't you list this amongst our resources?!" As soon as things with Tam look like they're going well again... have the dead ex-lover show up. Oh, I can just imagine the bangs..."I know you still love me, so why are you with that man?" Katrin does have a relationship to this guy, right? Give it to her for free (again under the free from homeland clause). Or ask her if she wants to make it a flaw and take it at an even higher level... Again, don't take no for an answer. It's in the character's background, it needs to be on the character sheet.

Hm.  I may actually suggest a snow elves mission to the player.  (Have to negotiate that pre-play so he's happy. He's still terrified of having a GM framing his PC into a scene, but when I give him a chance to think about it beforehand and check back with me that he's not losing out on some other things he "wanted to do first", he'll be fine.)

Here's a really easy way to do it that every player can get behind. Tell him that you want to get his character to point X (whatever you decide). Then ask him how that happens. Have some suggestions ready, and discuss it with him to ge the details straight, but just go with the player's idea. That way the player can't feel he's missing something, because he's the one deciding what the interrim action is about.

What I find a bit intimidating is that I have all these fine ideas for bangs, scenes, buildups and complications, but when I'm in the middle of running the game I find it hard to stay collected enough to remember them.  This simpy takes practice I guess, and learning how to organise my notes in a way that will help me access the information.  

What I find is that less is more here. That is, I'd have a page with those NPC notes on it, and then for Bangs, have as little as you can written that suggests the action in question. All it has to be is enough to trigger your memory of what it is you were thinking of.

For example, the bang with Atunga I'd write as:
Atunga asks Apari to investigate Snow Elves

You know the background behind the request, right? So all you need is a reminder of what to have happen to kick the scene off. Then just play Atunga as you know the character. I have all of the bangs on one sheet this way.

So that's two pieces of paper - My NPC list (Better yet, the R-Map), and my bang list. They're easily identified from each other, and easy to reference as nothing is mixed in on each page. If I'm stuck for something to happen, I hit the bang page. If I need to know about an NPC, I check the NPC page.

So - I want to do it, yet I go away and do nothing.  Coward.

You've moved to an entirely new method of play for your RPGs, you can't be a coward. You're just still getting used to it.

Here's a good trick. Plan a stomp, or some really presurizing bang or whatever, and make it your opener for the night. Just plan it right now, and have that be how you start the next session. How's about, Roland asks for Katrin to be his new general, but there's a man currently in that position. No matter what Katrin says, the old general calls her out. And he's general because he's really tough - as tough as Dorn's get, a master with a sword. Make sure that with augments that he's two masteries or so above Katrin (is this possible to do and keep plausible? How good is Katrin with a sword?).

Then she has to choose whether or not to accept the challenge first (you can have some preliminary stuff where she guages how tough he is through contests or talking to people, whatever). She might decide not to accept the challenge, at which point she might make some contest to defeat the guy in some other way (oratory to make him look like a fool) or Roland will still support her despite her apparent cowardice (but he'll likely be angry about it, or demand something more from her). If she fights and wins, cool, then she's the best in the land as far as anyone knows. If she looses, more likely, then the captain demands his position be restored to him, and Roland asks her if she wants to step down. If she doesn't, then she has to deal with the men she's supposed to lead not respecting her.

In any case, have the other guy humiliate her. Not in a way that the character "deserves," have him do it undeservedly. That is, make Katarin look good in defeat, but he still rubs it in saying she fought poorly. Also, just generally make him a boor, perhaps chauvanistic, and otherwise generally dislikable. So she can really, really hate him. Then, later when she faces him again and wins it'll be really fun. That's one thing you really need to have in this map that's not there right now, some petty villains. Somebody who's not grey, but who the player can really love to hate.

Just an idea. The goal with stomping is to really create a new motive in the character by having something take away something that she values a lot. So, right now, I see political power as a key motive for Katarin, and her love for Tam. So let's look at something that takes Tam away for a second option. It's too easy, and not as fun, really, to just have some villain kill of Tam. And then we can't bring him back, because two undead boyfriends would be really overdoing it. So let's leave him alive. So what would make her lose Tam? How about instead of losing face in the fight against the general, he does some dishonest move, which leaves her with all of her political power, but gives her a nasty scar instead? Tam tries to make like it doesn't matter to him (he has to stay worthy of her), but she can see in his eyes, that the scar really bothers him. Uh, I dunno, he witnessed a scarring like that as a child, and it gives him fits or something. He can't bring himself to kiss her. That should chill things for a while, and really make Katrin hate the villain.

The villain can be anyone, really, it doesn't matter. All that matters is that you're setting up bangs using the resolution system. Just make sure that the source of the damage is somebody that she can't take immediate revenge on, but will be around later for her to get back at.

Oh, then the key is to make bangs out of somebody offering the healing or solution to her problem. If she's lost face, losing to the general, then sombody proposes setting up a mock situation to make her look good again amongst the men. It's sneaky and dishonorable, but will she do it for political expediency's sake? If she's scarred, there's a herb that can heal such, but Reifels will only tell her where it is, if she promises to help him get the crown. That sort of thing.

Generally speaking, always try to give penalties to characters that give them something new to do. Then you can create bangs out of finding the solution to the problem.

Mike

[Kerstin Schmidt]

Wow, much to think about.  I'll reply in more detail later on heroquests, stompings and otherworlds.  First, however, regarding this:  

Uh, just for an example, we'll use the big GM club, and say that Apari is captured by Roland's men.

Argh! I thought about precisely this a couple of weeks ago but decided I couldn't use it with this player (I'd have no such qualms with Lucy).  
 
Here's the thing. I'm stepping around this player on velvet paws.  In circles.  He brought immense trust issues to my table.  This has been improving to some extent, but after about 15 or so sessions he still always assumes the worst and often hates having things happen to his character, no matter whether they turn out good or nasty.  When they turn out nasty, he is frustrated but not surprised because that's what GMs do to you: screw you over when they can.  (Never mind that he's never ever seen me do it.)  When events turn out good he is surprised but appears to almost dislike it even more, it's as if he thinks that I'm cheating in his favour (and thereby cheating him out of his fair hard game).  

Tell you what, I'm sick and tired of limiting myself because of his issues.  I've tried everything I could to build a basis of trust, and I've been lucky with him in some cases in which he suddenly grasped a thread of story and simply played - very cool and intense scenes came out of that and they are the ones that he keeps talking about as his best memories of the game.  Yet his general prejudice remains, it's like there's some railtrack in his mind that prevents him from seeing a game in a fresh way.  He's a very nice guy and a fun player to play with.  He spoke in favour of converting to HeroQuest despite his own doubts because I was enthusiastic; and I think he's getting fun out of my game despite his attitude.  But I keep thinking we'd both have tons more fun if he could just quit worrying and let me do stuff;  and he won't.  

And half the time I'm not attempting fun stuff because I've considered his likely worries and dropped the idea.  Like in this case.  Which is a bit like the story about not borrowing the neighbour's hammer.  

So what the hell.  I was going to post something else but I've changed my mind.  We've been talking about stomping and player trust a lot in an earlier thread.  Maybe it's time for me to take the velvet gloves off with this player and be more masterful.  I'll take your big GM club, Mike.  And I might steal some of your bangs while I'm at it.

[Mike Holmes]

Again, there are ways to deal with a player like this. As I mentioned, put the metagame out in the open for the player (like you've been doing a lot with Lucy). Ask him how his character is getting where you've got the action set, and tell him that this is where you have material prepared. And that once he gets the character there that you're not going to force results. Just that you want the PCs to have the opportunity to interact.

Basically co-opt him as a force for these metagame effects. Once he's a partner, then he can't be fearful.

There is another possibility here, however; he might be a hardcore simulationist. In that case, his dissapointment is that the metagame is showing. In which case, trying to get him in on it is the worst thing you can do.

So do it anyway. You have to find out where his issues lie. If it's actually just trust, then metagame in the open will solve that. If it's actually a sim issue, then at least you know you have a some player incompatibility to overcome. In that latter case...well, let's burn that bridge when we get to it. :-)

There's also just talking about it. Without jargon, just go through some sample situations, and ask what he'd like to have the GM do in those cases.

Mike

[Kerstin Schmidt]

From what you said, going to the veil = a heroquest.

Yes. I was staggered when I first read about heroquests - here was a game that did stuff like I'd started doing with my veil scenarios, only about thirteem million times better!  

The key points of a heroquest is that you are leaving the here and now and going into an eternal past, that without some sort of story to guide you, you don't know where you will end up, and that you can gain power, in various forms, for doing so.  

That's all fine by me for veil stuff.  In play up to now we've had a distinct lack of story guidance and little tangible power brought back, but that can change.  In the past the PCs were always agreeing to do veil stuff for the elves who told them virtually nothing;  the elves presumably knew a bit more than they were letting on, but not enough to want to take the risks of going themselves.  ("This veil has been extensively tested on humans." ;) )

Stomping her in the conflict over the Orc was not, I think, the right thing to do, because she was spending hero points to win (two of them I think, even?).  The use of hero points says "I want to win this one!"  So I'd say you played that one right.

Thanks for the kind words, but I think it was the other way round.  The question of winning and spending hero points to do so came up only because I set the resistance in a way that gave Lucy pretty much a 50% chance of winning.  If I'd tipped the playing field harshly against the PC, things would have looked differently - and in no way less cool:  

Katrin would still have killed the orc all right;  and she'd likely have made some friends among the Dorns in the hall.  But she would be in much more trouble with Roland and would have stirred more conflict among his followers if she had actually lost, which would have led to a wonderful and dynamic mess.  And one that Lucy would enjoy more, I'm pretty sure.  It would even have reinforced her message.  She was saying that Katrin's thinking was, "If to win against the Shadow we have to become like them, I'd rather lose."

The third makes me think of the issue of her lover.  She's given you an openning there, pretty much said "make this hard on me!" with the set up.  So clobber her with it.

That's not how she saw it at first, she created him as Katrin's fiancé, period. Not to be touched by me.  Although when I told her that Tam was going to come into play a lot more if we could actually use the dramatic potential in the relationship (and gave him Love Katrin to Distraction at a high rating), she was game.  
 
See, and here I am shying away again.  In prep I see the potential here all right.  But unless I tell myself beforehand that this will become wonderful leverage for a stomping if it plays out that way (and that I'm allowed to do my damnedest to build the conflict up to that), I can't do it in play.

So thanks for the examples, the more the better. If I get enough stomping-permission and nastily-stomped-PC images into my head, then maybe I'll dare reach for one while I run the bloody game.  :)

Immediate consequence is being sent out of the hall, while the "damage" being reduced ability to influence Roland.   Thematically this would emphasize the divisions between the non-shadow folk, and show that while she has great intentions she has over-reached herself as she does not yet have the experience, allies, and ability to bring unity.  Story-wise it gives all sorts of possible what is next things, with good odds that the player will help to drive that part.

You explain precisely why I should have given Roland a more appropriate level of resistance when Katrin killed his hated-pet orc.

[Kerstin Schmidt]

Oops.

[Mike Holmes]

The orc was the first contest, and it worked great. So I think you did it just fine. If the contest is not designed specifically for a stomping, or just to be there to make the character look good, then actually your main guide in setting resistance should be plausibility. Make the characters have the ability level that seems most likely for who they are. This might seem odd coming from me, but I think this is actually the best way in HQ to create drama, interestingly, given that win and loss are both equally interesting in most every case.

This does bring something up, however. The stomping should probably not be an extended contest. This is because extended contests give the player hope. Let me explain.

In an extended contest against a superior foe, you can end up bumping every round just trying to stay in the contest. I've seen this happen. A player will spend four, five or even more HP, just hoping for a really good die roll to come up and turn the tables. But they often don't come. Meaning that the player will have burnt a big pile of HP on what ends up as a failure. Which is often pretty dissapointing.

So just do it as a simple contest. In the end the player will be looking at a Major failure that they can bump to a minor or something, of which it's possible to make an objective choice at that point one way or another. With the extended contest after the first round it's Transfer x2 or bump to lose x1, which the player will be very temted to take, despite the fact that they're on a slippery slope to a loss.

Just my experience on this.

Generally extended contests can suck a lot of HP out of players. Even against an even foe, a series of bad rolls and a determined player can mean that getting the win costs a pile of HP. So always keep this in mind when you're considering doing an extended contest.


BTW, up at the top, I mentioned something that I don't think you've put in your game, either. Stomping is the reverse method of making a character a protagonist from the usual method, which is allowing them to kick ass. This sort of conflict should be thrown in regularly. Create an event (not a bang neccessarily, either) where the character is going to end up in a contest that highlights their best abilities. Make the resistance about even to theirs, or a tad lower - or make it 14, the universal default, if it's just some "standard" task (or even lower in some cases). The player might still lose, but with HP, it's usually at least their decision whether or not to do so, if not just an outright win.

Make the character look good, then make them lose to impossible odds, then make them look good again. It's this back and forth that keeps the character seeming coolest. Again, prepare these like any other event, or force yourself to find ones to do in play - it's a very important part of making the character a protagonist. Stomping is just for contrast, and to establish scale - you might be somewhat cool, but you're not the coolest in the world. Yet.

Mike

[Kerstin Schmidt]

My point was merely that you know enough of this stuff that I'd probably have as much fun in your game as you might in mine.

:) That would be cool.

The problem with this is that if I reference an NPC that doesn't have a bang associated with them, they might be duds for the moment. In a way I think you've almost overdone it - the idea of a relationship map is not to give every character a reason to grab the PCs.

I was overdoing it, no doubt about it. It was just too much fun to play around with these shiny new tools.  Techniques.  Things.  

Although that said, I do like to leave my prep as open-ended as possible.  No matter how much I prep, I develop in play and NPCs will change on the spot when it feels right in a scene.  So orienting major NPCs towards the PCs in prep can help me drop one "grabber" in favour of another if that's what fits best in the session.  

That's a bit weird really, but I have to have freedom to develop in play. I've tried running published scenarios by the book - and failed miserably. Not necessarily at the running, but definitely at the by-the-book part.

All that's really neccessary is to come up with a cosmology that you want to work with. Then you can kinda pick and choose how magic works based on that.

Here's what I have for magic and cosmology:  

The dead go nowhere. That's right.  The Veil is keeping them.  They linger. That's why the world suffers from so many Fell and angry ghosts. (Midnight canon, so far.)  

Otherworldly beings and otherworldly magic also go nowhere. They are trapped by the Veil just like souls are.  If Izrador's side keeps leeching magic from the land with Mirrors and killing or controlling otherworldly beings for long enough, all magic except Izrador's magic will die out.  
As Izrador's magic relies on the leeching Mirrors, that means that in effect Izradian magic will also die out after a time, unless the Veil is burst when he rises.  

I see the original Veil as some kind of transparent bubble. The souls of the dead can get to the inner surface of the bubble but no further.  There's a huge backlog of souls, it builds and builds. Some get reincarnated (but population is dwindling), some stay trapped in their bodies (Fell) or near their homes or place of death (ghosts). This ever thickening smog of souls is where veilquests take place.

Non-Izradian magic is available from magical energy and otherworldly creatures trapped in this world since Izrador's fall - this magic is diminished by Mirrors.  Izradian magic is available through serving Izrador as legate - this magic is enhanced by Mirrors.  

Legates choose Izradian magic from the Nine Books of Shadow.  The "books" are basically affinities and the feats in them are fairly powerful, but Legates can't improvise.

I wanted the Legate side of magic to be powerful yet lifeless, to suit the concept of a mostly-dead god.  They have "resurrection" magic but it causes the victim of it to rise as Fell (sentient undead).  If they win this war and manage to "revive" Izrador he'd be in a dead body btw.  A Fell god, ick.  :)

Other magic can come in either of two forms: Common magic, which people can just pick up from what's floating around in the land and/or in their family, no religious implications.  Or "channeler's books", which again are affinities that have less powerful feats than Izradian books but allow for improvisation and development.  You learn these books from a mentor, either a channeler or an otherworldly being. What with being taught, developed further, misremembered, lost, pieced together from half-lost fragments etc., no two channeler books are exactly alike.  

We called PCs crossing over into those other-time-places "going into the Veil".

Sounds to me like this is definitely otherworld itself. Possibly part of the Shadow Otherworld from what you've said, but possibly an otherworld of it's own. Which way do you see it?

Yup, definitely an otherworld of its own. I'm thinking it's the "soul smog" I described above. Call that a purgatory if you like, have to ask rush-hour commuters next time I see some... ;)

Oh, and the magic trapped in the physical world is also trying to escape and go home but can't, so it adds its own properties to the soul smog and all this mixed toegther starts to grow into slivers of otherworld.  (Possibly those are even nuclei of new otherworlds, if the Veil is ever broken.  Which would allow mortal heroes to ascend and become deities.  Cool?)

The "soul smog" also explains why I want to have several layers to the otherworld for the Dornish Crown heroquest.  Again, it's also to keep my options open, I might very well decide on the spur of the moment to ignore all the layers but one if it feels right.  But more importantly I want this place to be a huge, crowded, angry, broken mess.  Like rush hour. :) And a bit like the world will be if Izrador wins:  full of angry dead people.  

So all you have to do is to ensure that the R-Map is grabby for the other player, too, and prepare bangs relevant to the character in question.

Ok, every single case where I've managed to "grab" this player in the past was about elves. He really goes for that.  That, and straightforward, preferably suicidally heroic action.

For Apari's player, it's got to be clear-cut lines and action or he'll get frustrated.  Subtle stuff is not for him.  

Fine. Uh, just for an example, we'll use the big GM club, and say that Apari is captured by Roland's men. In fact, consider eliminating Nollorn, and simply inserting Apari where you had Nollorn before. Or have them get captured together.

This would be a fantastic place to start the character off. Especially if I also give him an accreditation letter, to represent the wood elves who are considering extending their magical protection to the Pike if Apari reports back that these humans can still be trusted.  

Uh, he evaded Roland's men for days, and then finally he had the bad luck to run into a pack of orcs who drove him into the hands of Roland's men - but not before he'd slain a dozen of the orcs.

Perfect place to tie him into the event of Nollorn getting caught. I have an orc ambush planned around that already.  

Second, make the narration about the events leading up short, and end in your first bang. If the player sees that you're simply setting up an opportunity for him to make a fun decision, then he'll have no problem with it.

Will do. I have a number of things that'll surprise him I think. One is that I'll let him have his magic daggers. Apparently they have this ability of being really, really unobtrusive when they really can't afford to be seen.

This is no different than the stomping thing. No it's not "fair." Players don't want fair, they want to interact with the game in a way that makes their characters cool. Sometimes unfair is the best way to do that.

Ah, here's the quote. Couldn't find that one last night. Thanks for that, and for ideas for more action-oriented bangs.  I know it was merely meant as an example, but it fits perfectly.

I'm leaning towards suggesting that this would take too much time.

Why, oh why?

D'oh. No good reason. :)

And what's this regarding Katrin? An undead ex-lover? As Westly would say, "Why didn't you list this amongst our resources?!" As soon as things with Tam look like they're going well again... have the dead ex-lover show up.

And double d'oh.   I had Arrenu nailed to his hiding place with his undead guard, a classic DnD NPC stoppage device created to keep him from wandering where he didn't belong.  No longer needed, yibbie.  

Even better is the reason Arrenu stayed in that hiding place with a hundred or so undead guards:  it's an ancient magical effect that keeps Fell from hungering for human flesh and going insane.  We've established that in play already. So if Arrrenu leaves that place, he's going for a really really important reason.  And he probably carries some nifty protection, perhaps given to him by Jahzir ... which of course won't keep working forever. Oh, the possibilities!

Katrin does have a relationship to this guy, right?

She has "Loves Tam 3w." And "Inspired by Arrenu 3w." Same ratings. Neat, eh?

So - I want to do it, yet I go away and do nothing.  Coward.

You've moved to an entirely new method of play for your RPGs, you can't be a coward. You're just still getting used to it.

Thanks. You wrote that when I needed it, yesterday.

Plan a stomp, or some really presurizing bang or whatever, and make it your opener for the night. Just plan it right now, and have that be how you start the next session. How's about, Roland asks for Katrin to be his new general, but there's a man currently in that position.

I have someone who's already applied for the position:  Olec of Eirinn.  He'll be really eager to show Katrin her place, and yeah, I can make him a nasty little chauvinist, no problem with that.  He's had to play second fiddle to two women (the Ladies of Norfell) all his life, and now he's kicking free and getting to deal with Roland, who does he find? Another bloody woman possibly outranking him!  

Make sure that with augments that he's two masteries or so above Katrin (is this possible to do and keep plausible? How good is Katrin with a sword?).

7w2, in a fight with just standard augments (like Big, Strong).  
So he'd need to start in the four-masteries range before augments?  That would work fine.  He's a middle-aged, tough pirate type, plus he hasn't appeared in play yet, so I can easily introduce him as "the most feared blade in the Western Pellurian". Katrin would have heard of him because she grew up on the south shore of the Pellurian Sea.

Just have to think of a neat Dornish challenging tradition so it won't look like an uncontrolled brawl, but I'll find something.

Roland will still support her despite her apparent cowardice (but he'll likely be angry about it, or demand something more from her).

Nah. He'll be enchanted. He'll offer her protection.  He'll even offer to marry her to secure her status and keep her safe. ;)

If she fights and wins, cool, then she's the best in the land as far as anyone knows. If she looses, more likely, then the captain demands his position be restored to him, and Roland asks her if she wants to step down. If she doesn't, then she has to deal with the men she's supposed to lead not respecting her.

Huh, that last sentence scared me again briefly. No worries though, I'll get used to it yet. I can sense how cool this kind of thing is and I want to do it.  

Also, just generally make him a boor, perhaps chauvanistic, and otherwise generally dislikable. So she can really, really hate him. Then, later when she faces him again and wins it'll be really fun.

He hates elves, too.  

That's one thing you really need to have in this map that's not there right now, some petty villains. Somebody who's not grey, but who the player can really love to hate.

Ok. I was leaving too many things open for development in play, that's true. I tend to do that.  Reifels was my candidate for small-minded and nasty before, but he wouldn't play that way.  I can do boorish racism and sexism though. Easier to do for me than more subtle stuff.  

So, right now, I see political power as a key motive for Katarin, and her love for Tam.

Yes.  

It's too easy, and not as fun, really, to just have some villain kill of Tam. And then we can't bring him back, because two undead boyfriends would be really overdoing it.

LOL, but it would make for comic relief.  (Not really.  You don't do comic relief with the important stuff unless it's a comedy. Which this isn't.)
And add to that the two captured elven friends and the father-and-son pair of admirers... it'd be a scenario that comes in pairs!

So what would make her lose Tam? How about instead of losing face in the fight against the general, he does some dishonest move, which leaves her with all of her political power, but gives her a nasty scar instead? Tam tries to make like it doesn't matter to him (he has to stay worthy of her), but she can see in his eyes, that the scar really bothers him. Uh, I dunno, he witnessed a scarring like that as a child, and it gives him fits or something. He can't bring himself to kiss her. That should chill things for a while, and really make Katrin hate the villain.

Oh, very nasty.

Generally speaking, always try to give penalties to characters that give them something new to do. Then you can create bangs out of finding the solution to the problem.

Yes, and it leads to cool new stuff, so the player doesn't regret the loss to the character because there's a net gain in game fun.  Thanks.

[Kerstin Schmidt]

The orc was the first contest, and it worked great. So I think you did it just fine. If the contest is not designed specifically for a stomping, or just to be there to make the character look good, then actually your main guide in setting resistance should be plausibility. Make the characters have the ability level that seems most likely for who they are. This might seem odd coming from me, but I think this is actually the best way in HQ to create drama, interestingly, given that win and loss are both equally interesting in most every case.

Well that was my point really.  I think Roland, in his own hall, surrounded by his followers, with his passionate, long-boiled hatred of the orc and his big lonely ego deserved a higher resistance than the low three-masteries range.  That's not even mentioning Veddia, who I completely forgot about;  that bit is ok though because Veddia may well have been torn between her two loyalties to Roland and to Katrin and staid out of the contest because of that.  
(Also on a side note, I never thought about the place's guardian.  Whether Roland or not got its aid would have been an important message to everyone in the hall.)  

In an extended contest against a superior foe, you can end up bumping every round just trying to stay in the contest. I've seen this happen.

I've done it, in an extended contest against an NPC who had a little over a mastery on my PC.  (I won with 4 bumps, and it was worth that to me because the character was ready to die for what she was trying to achieve - but obviously that's not an everyday situation.)

Generally extended contests can suck a lot of HP out of players. Even against an even foe, a series of bad rolls and a determined player can mean that getting the win costs a pile of HP. So always keep this in mind when you're considering doing an extended contest.

Very good point, thanks.

Stomping is the reverse method of making a character a protagonist from the usual method, which is allowing them to kick ass.

Had that with the giant spider in the session before.  This session didn't have enough time in it, but easy stuff should be coming up again.  Thing is, with the easy stuff I tend to make it automatic (it's just such a relief to be getting beyond DnD bog-down fights and sundry other die rolls), but perhaps I should make those situations contests more often to give the easy stuff more emphasis in player eyes.  

Make the resistance about even to theirs, or a tad lower [....]

That's what Roland had in the contest about the orc.  


Oh, just to be clear I'm not all shattered about how I ran that contest btw.  It was a cool scene and great fun to play; I just wonder whether the other way wouldn't have had more potential. And that's more to learn from it than to beat myself up over it anyway. So thanks for your thoughtful comments.