Questions for determining character traits

[Vesirius]

I'm trying to come up with a list of questions that would determine the cost of an ability during character creation. Think Nobilis, Everway, or Godlike. Here's some that I have so far:

-Can it do lots of different things?
-Is it useful in the game?
-Will it have a big effect on the game?
-Does it not fit the flavor of the game?
-Is it uncommon or rare in the world of the game?

So, for example, each yes answer to the above questions would increase the cost of the player-created ability by a point. Can anyone think of anymore questions that may be different? Or perhaps a different way of handling this? I'd really like to let players create abilities, but there should be some checks and balances. What do you think?

[lumpley]

Welcome to the Forge!

How about: how much mechanical advantage will it give me? Like, if it gives me four dice per session, it costs 4; if it gives me 10 dice per session, it costs 10.

Then you don't have to worry about rarity in the game world, big/little effect, how useful, or any of that. Guaranteed balanced. Also, for a mechanical cost (character creation points) you should get a relatively certain mechanical benefit, shouldn't you?

My name's Vincent. What's yours?

What's your game about?

-Vincent

[Jason Petrasko]

Ok, I see two possibilities for developing any ability cost system.

1.) You are trying to determine the cost of an ability to create balance across characters.
2.) You are trying to build a system that enables players to create abilities in a mold that the game embraces.

From your post I don't get a clear definition of how your using the 'cost of ability'. I'll throw out some idle thoughts though. If you clarify your intent I'll be able to help more (or not).

I personally don't like #1 at all. I've found that balance between characters is most likely a pipe dream. If that is your goal, then I'll probably be of no help to you. I don't doubt others here might be of help though :)

Your comment about 'checks and balances' seems to indicate your leaning towards option #2. In that case you need to narrow down the feel and color of the game. Then you can use the point (or option) system enable the players to create powers in the flavor of the game. This type of system generally rules out making any type of power though. I won't go any further with details on my experiences making systems that embrace #2 unless that is your goal.

[Vesirius]

Well, the details of the system are at http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=14143&highlight=

Hello Vincent, my name is Jesse Coombs.

It's a fairly generic system mostly geared towards not a specific genre, but to genres that I usually run and in the style that I like to run them. It will mostly be geared to adventuring with big, broad characters. Maybe like pulps, superheros, wizards, etc. I want to run the same system for different stories. I want to keep the same system even if the genre is slightly different each time. This way, the players and I get used to it without having to learn a new one.

Jason, I do want to have a slight character balance, but it's not really that important to me. Any balance that there is would be more for the players than for me. I don't want them to feel that they would be treated unfairly, or that they wouldn't get as much play time as another player.

I want the players to have a heavy hand in both creating their character abilities and in creating the genre/world to play in. I want a shared creative experience, while keeping a semi-traditional GM/player relationship.  I think a small level of structure is important.

[Jason Petrasko]

Jesse,

Well it sounds like the questions you have cover some good ground:

Scope: Can it do lots of different things?
Utility: Is it useful in the game?
Power: Will it have a big effect on the game?

Those three look to be major components of gauging the player 'felt' value of any given power. Scope will be easy to nail down if you want to give it two or three levels, Power will be easy as well.

I see you could have major problems with Utility. How to rate utility in a genre-less game woud cause a lot of player and GM judgement calls, no? The utility of a given power will be something with extreme swing from one game to the next. Immune to vampires? great, but there are no vampires in this setting...

Hmmm. Have you considered using something like a currency for powers? Making it incur a cost when used- say in fate/drama/hero/<insert your idea here> points. Then the usefulness of a power could be ignored, since it will drain points only when used. Just an off the cuff idea.

[Vesirius]

More or less, I'm pretty much avoiding any type of "currency". I'm using a system of bonuses and disadvantages for all of the bookkeeping. A player could take a restriction to a power that would require some type of payment, but I'd like to keep it simple. It's a good idea though.

Utility is actually not that hard, but the question of usefulness must be applied to the current genre, not to the game as a whole. So if our player wants Iimmunity to vampires in a non-vampire setting, great, it may not help them that much, but it won't be as expensive and it can be more powerful here.

I've revised the questions, there are now 6:

-Is it frequent?
-Is it versitile?
-Will it have a major effect?
-Is it uncommon in the world of the game?
-Is it inappropriate to the genre?
-Is it a loophole or a cheat that might disrupt the mechanics/flow/fun of the game?

[Valamir]

Honestly, I think your questions are doomed to fail...in that sort of Quest for the Grail, nice idea but you'll never get it, kind of way.

There's no possible way to gauge these things out of context, and unfortuneately the only context that is valid is the actual moment of play when they are used.

Give some thought to Vincent's idea.  That simple approach renders all of your questions and concerns absolutely moot.  None of them will matter any more.

The ability will have exactly the level of impact on the game that they player payed for, regardless of whether they name it something trivial or ridiculously broad.  


But here's an even more important question.  Perhaps the most important question you can be asked.

Why does this matter to you?  What problem do you envision being able to "cost" an ability according to these questions will solve?