List of 10 versus 100 words?

[Mike Holmes]

OK, I have to clarify my position. I thought that Bryan might mangle it somewhat in it's presentation - which is probably my fault in how I presented it to him originally.

I think that most of us would agree about the playing before you play. So do I think that the 100 words constitutes this? Actually, no, I don't. As some have pointed out, 100 words just isn't enough for this. What I find happens is that the 100 words just ends up being a list anyhow. Oh, sure the writer ends up making complete sentences per the requirement, etc, but when it all comes down to it, each sentence is there to support one or more abilities. "Bob was a soldier, and the hardships he faced made him quite courageous." Once can sense the underlines even before they're put on paper.

By the time you put in the supporting words, you just have a fancy list more or less. There's very little additional information in the 100 words. So, functionally, I don't think that the player has the "time" to actually play before they play.

Like I said to you, Bryan, I think that the 100 word limit for that method is a brilliant idea. It's so few, that people just can't go off on backstory.

Like Chris says, it takes a couple of pages to get a backstory. So what am I on about? Well, I think that what happens is that the 100 words, being too short for the amature writer, says to him to keep on writing. Especially doing chargen in the electronic medium, what I found was that players would be like, "here's my 100 words, and here's another 2000 in backstory." The notion that they were to write about their character was saying to them that it was time to play before we played.

So, I really don't have a particular problem with the 100 word method. I do think that it's completely unneccessary - there's no advantage to play in my opinion in doing it this way. But if the player has fun doing it, or it makes it easier for them to come up with abilities, or whatever, sure, go for it. I always allow players who want to do so to do so. I just suggest the list first.

I've always marveled how, if you complete a character using the list method, that you can get pretty much just as detailed a "background" for the character looking at the character sheet as looking at the 100 words. In fact, might be because I'm a statistician, but when I finally see where the 20 points ended up, that's when I really get a feel for what's important to the player. Much moreso than looking at any 100 words could.

By the way, when doing the 100 word method, here's what I do. I say, OK, go back now, and find the keywords, and then underline 10 other things. Why? Well, I've been the first to say that power balance isn't important in HQ. But "interest" balance is important, I think. I think that one extra ability at 13 is actually more unbalancing this way than having one ability pumped way up. In fact, because power balance is so irellevant to play. It's all about how many augments the player finds on his character sheet. And there's simply no real difference between a Big Smile +1, and Big Smile +2 in these terms.

Further, every word here that's pointed out how the constraints of 100 words has created better, tighter, more focused characters goes doubly so for the list method. Because I've never seen anyone using the uninhibited 100 word method come up with less than 15 extra abilities. By limiting the character to only ten abilities selected from the 100 words, you actually give the player incentive to "spread out the words." Rather, without this limit, what happens is that players drift towards shorter sentences, and trying to jam more stuff in one sentence, etc. They have an incentive to do so, depsite the method saying that they shouldn't. Well, why not just take that incnetive away? Why not balance all starting PCs out by having them end up with the same number of abilities?

So, given that this seems sensible to me, and that I see no a priori advantage to the actual act of writing, and that I feel that it sometimes sends a message to folks to write up a ton of backstory...I think promoting the list method as the default is a sensible thing to do. Again, if somebody wants to the 100 words for whatever reason, fine, I don't say no. I just offer the list method as the default.

And it's always worked for me. I've never seen anyone not be able to come up with what they needed. Because here's my other secret. Actually all characters are "as you go." That is, my rule is that nothing that's on the character sheet is set in stone until it gets shown in play. So, really, to me, what's on the character sheet is just a list of suggested ideas. And if it's not "complete?" No problem. In fact, I'm pretty enamored with starting with less rather than with more. So if a player doesn't have all of those abilities worked out using the list method? Then it's time to start play and discover the rest.

So, really, my chargen is a gestalt of all three methods.
1. You're limited to the normal keyword selections, and ten abilities outside of keywords that you get for "free." Everything else costs HP.
2. Use whatever methods you like to come up with the abilities. Just write them down in a list, write 100 words, sing a song, stand on your head, I don't really care. Just don't play before we play.
3. We start play as soon as you're out of ideas for abilities. If you haven't spent your limit, then you can spend these freebies at any time you want during play as long as their inclusion doesn't contradict continuity.

Make sense? One big method for everyone that's completely flexible, yet balanced.

Mike

[Lamorak33]

Hi

Its got to be the 100 words for my money.  However, it is difficult for some, so I get them to choose 10 abilities.  For one guy that was a stretch - 10 abilities and it didn't matter what they were, what a conundrum!!

Once they have 10 abilities I draft up a narrative for them.  I find that they then find it much easier to finish the narrative, or amend it to suit their desires.  I guess they then become sort of inspired. 

Just for the record, I do it as 100-ish words as well.  I am more strict with people that write a very economical narrative to those who write an almost backstory-ish narrative.  I may suggest changes toward economy, but I leave it to the player as the final arbiter.

The comments on balance are related to GNS issues that are discussed elsewhere on this site.  I would refer those people to the essay section on GNS so that they can discover, as I did, what a red herring 'game balance' is when we talk about Heroquest the game.

Regards
Rob

Regards
Rob

[Gelasma]

It seems to me, that the declarative 10-Point-List method just suits you more than the descriptive 100-Words method. And that you apply the list method behind-the-scenes when you write a 100-Words description. What you describe is someone who does a declarative 100-Words description. If you froce such a player to write a description, he will just deliver you a declaration hidden inside the description.
Thus if I see one of my players doing this, then I tell him "maybe you should just do a 10-Point-List, that might suit you better".

That's the nice thing about HQ: it supports different styles of thinking and perception. Some ppl, as you, prefer to declare their character while others, like me for example, prefer to describe their character. It's true, finally, both end up with "equal" characters, thats not a failure of the system but a feature. The two methods are not meant to yield different characters, but as two different ways to reach the same goal.