Roll 3d6 .... What is this?!?

[lev_lafayette]

Again, what's the game about?  Do you want to differentiate between mathematical aptitude, artistic aptitude, linguistic aptitude, etc.?  Or do you just want to roll them all into "Intelligence"?  Now, you seem to be focused on physical things, so let's leave the mental/spiritual stuff aside and do body work.

Well, assuming that I've put traits (i.e, more or less genetically determined) in one basket we have an advantage looking for correlations. Wikipedia is my friend;

"Contrary to the claim that IQ is a social construct, cognitive ability is heritable. Adoption studies show that, by adolescence, adopted siblings are no more similar in IQ than strangers (IQ correlation near zero), while full siblings show an IQ correlation of 0.6. Twin studies also support a partly genetic basis for IQ: monozygotic (identical) twins raised separately are highly similar in IQ (0.75), more so than dizygotic (fraternal) twins raised together (0.6) and much more than adopted siblings (~0.0). According to some studies the heritability of IQ increases with age, such that differences in family advantage are lost by adolescence."

So in this case, in terms of abstract reasoning alone (whether mathematical, linguistic or artistic) well call that INT. It doesn't give you any skills by itself (unlike GURPS where IQ represents "general knowledge" as well as innate reasoning ability.

Weight lifter and Long jumper (upper body/lower body)
Sprinter and Distance runner (fast twitch/endurance)
Beefy bruiser and Numble dodger (strength/nimbleness)
Sprinter and Long jumper (running fast/jumping far)
Push up master and Pull up master (triceps/biceps)
Ballet dancer and Wood carver (gross muscle control/fine muscle control)

You know, I quite like the very practicallly-minded and low-circulation beer-n-pretzels game, AARG!, which stopped mucking around and described things as they were:

Brain, Muscle, Heart, Soul, Legs, Hands, Senses, and Mouth.

It isn't too hard to convert these into the more familiar terms: Intelligence, Strength, Constitution, Spirit, Agility, Dexterity, Perception and Charisma, although there is possibly some dispute how much Spirit and Charisma are "innate" rather than "learned".  It's probably the latter two that I'm still pondering about.

[LordSmerf]

A couple of things...

The reason I asked about an "Intellegence" stat is that there are clearly different aptitudes when it comes to thinking, and there's good evidence that they are genetic.  Some people have a gift for languages, some people have a sort of intuitive understanding of mathematics, etc.  You can roll all of these into a single catch-all stat, but you're making things less "realistic", which is totally fine.  If it's not important to your game to differentiate, then do not differentiate.  To do so would be a detriment to your game.

So, you have four physical stats, which is cool.  The Burning Wheel has roughly analagous stats: Power (Strength), Forte (Constitution), Speed (Agility), Agility (Dexterity).  I think it's a very nice split myself.

However, from reading your earlier stuff I thought you were dissatisfied with this kind of a split because it doesn't allow for the difference between (say) upper body strength and lower body strength, which are limited genetically and don't maintain the same proportion for everyone (i.e. having a maximum potential bench press of 100kg may or may not give you a maximum leg press of 200kg, it varies).

Based on your last post I've reinterpreted your position as follows: "I don't like games that use an uncapped, learned ability to determine physical limits (jumping distance, maximum weight lifted, etc.), and I don't like games that combine gross muscle control (your Agility) and fine muscle control (your Dexterity) into a single stat."  Is that basically what you've been saying?

Thomas

[lev_lafayette]

The reason I asked about an "Intellegence" stat is that there are clearly different aptitudes when it comes to thinking, and there's good evidence that they are genetic.  
Some people have a gift for languages, some people have a sort of intuitive understanding of mathematics, etc.

Not according to the wikipedia article, which I have a degree of trust for.

I have also, I may add, read pretty thoroughly the APA's "Knowns and Unknowns of Intelligence". I am very found Vygotsky's proximal intelligence, but more prepared to consider that part of CHA (i.e., the ability to establish a network of friends who know the answer).

So, you have four physical stats, which is cool.  The Burning Wheel has roughly analagous stats: Power (Strength), Forte (Constitution), Speed (Agility), Agility (Dexterity).  I think it's a very nice split myself.

*nods* It seems OK. It allows for sufficient differentiation without getting overly complex. Using those rather cute descriptives from AARG! one can intuitively place what one is trying to use each stat for.

However, from reading your earlier stuff I thought you were dissatisfied with this kind of a split because it doesn't allow for the difference between (say) upper body strength and lower body strength, which are limited genetically and don't maintain the same proportion for everyone (i.e. having a maximum potential bench press of 100kg may or may not give you a maximum leg press of 200kg, it varies).

I would put AGI (legs) in lower body strength and STR (muscle) in upper.

Based on your last post I've reinterpreted your position as follows: "I don't like games that use an uncapped, learned ability to determine physical limits (jumping distance, maximum weight lifted, etc.), and I don't like games that combine gross muscle control (your Agility) and fine muscle control (your Dexterity) into a single stat."  Is that basically what you've been saying?

Sounds right to me.