Meaningful Actions

[Marco]

Can you give me some more information about what you mean here? A GM could overrule an action in any game under any CA in some circumstance (the jive-talking elf is told to rein it in--is that a CA specific action? Sim? I think if we say it is it's overly simplistic to the point of being naive).

I'm thinking in terms of personality mechanics in basically the same situation as you described.  You want to make a statement by acting cool, but the gm decides you have the frazzled conditon applied or that you have hot headed disadvantage and nullifies your action.

Yeah, that's a classic. If I'd had a disadvantage like I'd have been sure to take my meaningful action in a way that was congruent with it.

-Marco

[contracycle]

I think entangling the issues of empowerment or social reinforcement and personal meaning is a mistake.

I don't see anyone proposing that they BE entangled except you.  Everyone else seems conmfortable with a view of "meaning" that depends on the personal, and not on in-game actoions.

[Marco]

I think entangling the issues of empowerment or social reinforcement and personal meaning is a mistake.

I don't see anyone proposing that they BE entangled except you.  Everyone else seems conmfortable with a view of "meaning" that depends on the personal, and not on in-game actoions.

Well, look at the thread. There have been several standards proposed for "an action not being meaningful."

1. The GM prevents the action (tautological: no action occurrs)
2. The actions are "rendered irrelevant in some way by the GM" (but still presumably occur): I disagree with this one as above.
3. The actions are described in as in-game-actions (only) that have little dramatic impact on SIS (the girl is rescued but never seen again): I disagree with the emphasis as stated. The question was asked 'how is that really meaningful' and I replied "the description never directly addresses the players (only obliquely).
4. The actions are taken but not validated/recognized by other players: I disagree with that on the basis that the standard is personal.

Yeah?

-Marco

[contracycle]

Yes Marco, but the very multiplicity of ways an action might be rendered meaningless should suggest there is something deeper going on.  That
something deeper is the players personal investment in the issue.

The only thing I objected to in your formulation is the "congruence" between in-game action and such investment.  It has always been the case that you identify CA through prioritisation, not by merely observing character actions.

[Marco]

Yes Marco, but the very multiplicity of ways an action might be rendered meaningless should suggest there is something deeper going on.  That
something deeper is the players personal investment in the issue.

I think I should point out that my conclusion was that there was not a multiplicity of ways that an action might be rendered meaningless. I concluded that an action might be *denied* or be *meaningless to begin with.*

-Marco