The place of character sheet and die rolls within play

[M. J. Young]

Offhand, I am hard pressed to recall a time when a player has held up his character sheet for other people to read in order to back up some in-game statement.  (Note: I believe that it happens in other games, but it's not a part of my experience.)  Thus, I don't think of character sheets as primarily a supplier of social authority.  To my mind, the character sheet is primarily for that character's player -- not for the other players in the group....

So descriptive stuff which helps them get in-character (if that's desired) and play aids (like commonly-used charts) are good to go on a character sheet.

On the second point, I do agree that there is value in having objects (for lack of a better word) on the character sheet whose primary functions are to bring the character into focus in the player's mind, helping him get in character, as it were, and/or helping him know what he can do.

On the former point, though, I think that the authority of the character sheet works without the necessity of the player showing it to the other players, in the same way that other authorities work without being seen: we trust the individual participant that the authority does indeed say that when it is cited. We don't read the scenario notes, but trust the referee to present the scenario to us based on those notes. We don't necessarily check the rules when someone references one, even if we haven't actually read the rule book. In some games, it is accepted that the dice rolled behind the screen are correctly reported by the referee.

I think that if you had a player who frequently created new "facts" about his character that "just happened" to fit the current situation (and the game didn't normally extend that kind of credibility to character players) you would start asking to see his sheet when he made claims about character abilities you didn't recognize, in much the same way that if one guy keeps reporting a lot of really good rolls that are out of view of everyone else you'll start insisting that he throw the dice in the middle of the table where everyone can see them.

So the paper isn't less used as an authority merely because we trust the player to base his statements on what it actually says instead of inventing stuff.

But that was an excellent point, and I had to think about it for a while.

--M. J. Young

[John Kim]

I think that if you had a player who frequently created new "facts" about his character that "just happened" to fit the current situation (and the game didn't normally extend that kind of credibility to character players) you would start asking to see his sheet when he made claims about character abilities you didn't recognize, in much the same way that if one guy keeps reporting a lot of really good rolls that are out of view of everyone else you'll start insisting that he throw the dice in the middle of the table where everyone can see them.

So the paper isn't less used as an authority merely because we trust the player to base his statements on what it actually says instead of inventing stuff.

Hmm.  I agree with you that this is what would happen, but I'm not sure I interpret it the same way.  Let me take your example here.  In your view, you're saying that all along (i.e. both at first when we just accepted the player's word and later when we demand to see the sheet), it was the sheet that was used as the authority.  I would say that at first the player was the authority, and that because of problems with the player the group shifted to demand the sheet as the authority.  If, in turn, the player's sheet turned out to have problematic issues (i.e. stats too high), then we would not accept the sheet either -- and we'd turn to the rulebooks.  

Now, I suspect that this is to some degree just semantics.  i.e. We may be mostly agreeing but are expressing the thing different ways.  But I think it's important, actually.  

What I'm trying to emphasize is that the character sheet, in practice, is generally looked at only by the player.  So it should be designed for how it is actually used -- i.e. as a player aid.  Indeed, often a player will take it with her and be allowed to write on and edit it.  Given this usage, I am suggesting it is not very effective at the suggested role of being a social authority.  It can fill that role in a pinch, but it's not very well suited for it.  For that, it's better to use, say, chips or cards or other elements dealt out during play.  

As it turns out, I think I agree with contracycle actually.  (Sudden shock!)  

RPG charsheets by contrast are not really seen as in and of the game; they facilitate the play of the game rather than being part of the game.  I think this approach needs to be challenged, and that more completely integrated, game-empowered, system-representing character sheets would qallow a certain increase in the sophistication of games.

I'm not quite sure what you're thinking of here -- but I agree that RPG character sheets are generally horribly designed for their actual use in play.  For example, I was struck by the character sheets for Soap.  There's only a dozen things on the sheet, yet somehow they've got it all mixed up.  The character secret is smack in the middle of the sheet, while there's also a part for character portrait which you'll want to show (along with stuff on the top you'll want to show).  

I think for RPG design to advance we need to look closer at what actually happens during play and design to that.  If something is a social authority or public information, it should be designed to be displayed -- like chips, or a miniature figure, or a stand-up name/description card.  If something is a list of personal reminders to the player, it should be a private page.

[Jason Newquist]

Hi John,

What I'm trying to emphasize is that the character sheet, in practice, is generally looked at only by the player.  So it should be designed for how it is actually used -- i.e. as a player aid.  Indeed, often a player will take it with her and be allowed to write on and edit it.  Given this usage, I am suggesting it is not very effective at the suggested role of being a social authority.  It can fill that role in a pinch, but it's not very well suited for it.  For that, it's better to use, say, chips or cards or other elements dealt out during play.

This seems to be a simplification of what's actually happening.

Seems like there are parts of the "character record sheet" which may or may not be Stuff That Matters, and which may or may not be accepted into the SIS.

Let's take a D&D example.

(A) Matters, in SIS:  Attribute scores!  We rolled these up together, and we are all entrusted with keeping them current.

(B) Matters, not in SIS: Encumbrance, but that's just because we've got pack horses.  Once we leave the horses and enter the dungeon, it's gunna matter!

(C) Doesn't Matter, in SIS: That cool visual of my character I sketched on the sheet, and took 10 minutes describing over pizza that one time.

(D) Doesn't Matter, not in SIS: Family history which I've described in this "notes" section here on page 4.

This is all assuming that we're talking about character sheets which record stuff.  To the extent that they do this, in my experience they are treated as authoritative as anything for the purpose of justifying actions which rely on the stuff in question.

You wanna bend bars/lift gates?  What's your STR?  *consult sheet*

You wanna look for the clue?  What's your Spot Hidden?  *consult sheet*

You wanna draw your gun and shoot the Steward?  What's your Acuity + Will, and what's your gun like?  *consult sheet*

Seems to me that the process of keeping one's sheet up to date, and having them shared during the game and talked about and all of that?  That process, or processes like it, create the trust and social grease we rely on when we have to say, "My Spot Hidden is 70!"  The sheet's a memory aid, but something's got to be, unless we're all Cylons.

-Jason

[groundhog]

Maybe it's just because I've played with a lot of "munchkin" players, but I've had lots of experience in seeing equipment "assumed" to be on a character in  Sim or Gam scenarios. This usually happens when the player conveniently assumes his character would have the gear when it's most needed, and contrary to what the rest of the play group thinks about that player's character.

It's not often that someone will outright doctor a character sheet, and to do so is a pretty big violation of the social contract. It is more common, though, to interject, "Of course I am wearing a tench coat and have a submachine gun under it", even when on a tropical island at a beach resort. In Sim play, or in heavy Gamist play in which those added advantages were called upon, the groups in which I've been involved have regularly made use of an inventory sheet. When leaving a safehouse/cave hideout/whatever, things being taken with the character get moved from the inventory sheet of the site into the character's personal inventory or that of his conveyance. That way, from moment to moment, there is no disagreement about whether that nifty new spellbook was left at the mage's laboratory to be stolen by a burglar or whether the pocket knife was shoved into the thief's boot and still there when he was taken captive.

This kind of detail, of course, is not necessary in Nar play because it could make a better story for a character to have a possession in an unlikely place or at an unlikely time. It may even work to have a possession that is itself unlikely to be available to the character. With the cause-and-effect of mushc Sim play, though, it can be very important. Likewise, if it is done specifically at key Gamist points of interest, it can be important for that CA as well.

The setting could make a difference in the need for such a system, too. If the character travels all the time and has one change of clothes, a horse, a sword, one knife, a breastplate, a rope belt, and some cloth bags in his name then he'll probably carry all of that all the time. If a character has an apartment in the city, a country hosue with barn, a safety deposit box, a rented self-storage unit, a locker at the airport, four vehicles, a huge wardrobe, and a personal assistant then it's much more difficult to determine what is with the character or in a particular place at the time. If you need that faked ID to get into the facility you're trying to bug for surveillance, but it's in yesterday's clothes, that's a big issue. I've seen memory as an attribute in games particularly to facilitate this kind of screw-up at a mechanical level.

On the other hand, that memory stat I just mentioned is overkill for many kinds of games. It would be part of an advantage/disadvantage system in others, with everyone else assumed to have an average memory. In a game in which characters can have amazing skills but in which attention to detail is the theme, things like memory, perception, skills in proper spelling and grammar, and other things suddenly become important to that game and therefore need to be handy on a character record.

I think it pays to determine what is important for the situations you want to arise during play. That's what belongs on the character sheet. If you have no interest in the chance of having a James Bond type playing with a neat gadget from Q's lab only to realize he forgot to take it with him the one day he really needed it, then your superspy game doesn't need a character inventory. If you're interested in a dimplomat accidentally bringing two countries to the brink of war during a negotiation by committing a minor cultural faux pas with great signifigance as an insult to one party involved, then a skill for customs is as important as a skill for languages.

It all depends on your focus and that of the players you want to play your game. One way in which generalized/generic mechanics fail is to include every minute detail about a character in what's considered the central data about the character. One way in which minimalist mechanics could fail is if they leave out something that would be helpful in addressing situation, character, (dis)advantages, or premise and which follow closely what is already included. Where to draw the lines can be difficult, but I agree the decision must be made.  Getting it right is a matter of focus, common sense, and experience in playing other games.