Introverted vs Extroverted Humanities

[angelfromanotherpin]

I've played a few different games of Sorcerer using different Humanity types.  Most have been what I'll call introvert qualities: Empathy, Sanity, Hope.  Qualities which can exist outside a relationship with another person.

In an attempt to highlight what I enjoyed most about Hope, I'm writing up a setting with Humanity as Trust.  As I was considering Lore descriptors and ritual actions, it occurred to me that this is a far more juicy sort of Humanity, since it requires exploiting or manipulating a relationship. For this reason, I'm calling it an extrovert quality.

I'm very excited by the dramatic possibilities of this definition, and I'd like to hear about any similarly extroverted definitions of Humanity other people have used.  

If people are interested, I'll put up my setting stuff when it's done and later, any particularly electric play results.

[Ron Edwards]

Hiya,

Regarding your introvert or internal Humanity concepts, I guess I see them as external or extrovert when it comes to Humanity as a game mechanic.

Any of these things does have its own internal sensations associated with it, but Humanity in Sorcerer is about what characters do, not what they feel. Always. So even if it's "sanity" or "hope," the rolls are about what is done which you and I and the other participants consider to express sanity or hope or whatever.

If the distinction excites you and leads you to more enjoyable play, but from my perspective, should have have been using an "extrovert" form of Humanity all along. Even if it was called sanity, hope, or anything you were thinking of as internal/introvert.

Best,
Ron

[angelfromanotherpin]

Well, I've always based the mechanical end of things off of action (or inaction), but there's a difference.  

Subverting Empathy to Contact a Demon by, say, grabbing a random person and torturing them until they pass out so the Demon can speak through their mouth is clearly transgressive, but you have no particular relationship with that poor sap(even if he's now deeply obsessed with you).

Subverting Trust to Contact a Demon by, say, destroying a friend's irreplaceable keepsake to read the scattered shards like tea-leaves is transgressive and involves an established relationship.  

I think it has to do with the level of relationship required for the transgression to occur in the first place.  I'm not sure I'm expressing this very well.  I'll try back later when I have more time.