Interior art -- how important is it?

[Andrew Morris]

In putting together my first game(s), I've realized two things:

1) I have no artistic ability whatsoever.
2) My budget is slightly more than zero.

This got me thinking about where to put what little money I can budget for my game. My current idea is that all of it should go to the cover art. This means that I won't have any money for layout or interior art. I'll address the layout issue by keeping it very simple, which I tend to prefer anyway. But the lack of interior art worries me somewhat.

Personally, I couldn't care less if RPGs had art or not. Sometimes (if it really fits the game) it's nice, but solid text wouldn't bother me. Of course, I'm a word-oriented person, so I'm probably not the best meter to use.

So, first, does anyone have any firsthand experiences to share in this area (RPG with cover art, but no interior art)? Second, even if you don't have firsthand experience, does this idea sound like it would make a game less palatable to potential buyers?

[Trevis Martin]

Lxdr should speak up here.  Fastlane has no interior art beyond the roulette layout needed for the game.  It bothers me a little because there aren't any visual 'landmarks' in the book (I sometimes reference books that way, "oh, yeah that's on the page with the dragon swollowing the knight."  But it isn't a major thing for me.

Also I believe Vincent's KPFS has no interior art either.  That's more of a feel thing for the game (the typeface is like a manual typewriter.)

best

Trevis

[Shreyas Sampat]

In my opinion, you need to make a strong visual statement with your game. You don't need interior art to do this, but it can make it easier. I just don't buy games that fail to have some visual impact (unless I buy the book sight unseen because I am sure it has content I want).

Regarding Trevis's comment about visual landmarks: These really help me a lot, but, again, you can do them with text, if you have a visually distinctive title font or something.

[jdagna]

I think art is particularly important for certain games or genres.  For example, it can be very difficult to describe things in science fiction or fantasy settings without pictures to give players reference points.  In modern settings or something similar to something else, I imagine you could do without it.

Art helps establish the tone of the game.  For example, if you look at the old WFRP cover, it's a dirty, dank world, with people being brutally cut apart on the cover.  The interior art continues to reinforce this dingy, dark world.  Without that art, I'd probably have envisioned a clean D&D or Tolkien fantasy world (and thus would not have bought the thing in the first place).  There are things that pictures just imply better than words can ever explain.

The last important thing is that art can give people something to immediately get excited about.  Your cover art should accomplish much of that, but players often get jazzed about a game when they see a particular character or weapon or whatever.  You can't put everything in the cover, so interior art can give people that many more places to emotionally latch onto the game.

Here's an idea, though... inspired by the ransom model, I was thinking about this the other day: publish a first edition or pre-release, or whatever you want to call it without any interior art.  Then use a donation-driven ransom to pay for the rest of the artwork in a future edition. Clinton does something like this where he gives the text away for free, with the illustrated version at a cost.   A ransom version jjust might work if people want it enough.

[Luke]

Andrew,

Unless you're saying that you have less than $100 for your art budget, I don't think you need to worry too much. Offer an artist $10 per interior piece, do one for each chapter heading. Offer $20-$30 for your cover. Take the rest of the money and buy lunch.

I sussed out some very good art for those prices.

How long is your game? How many sections? What's it about? What do you absolutely need art for? What about graphics and logos?

-L

[Keith Senkowski]

Unless you're saying that you have less than $100 for your art budget, I don't think you need to worry too much. Offer an artist $10 per interior piece, do one for each chapter heading. Offer $20-$30 for your cover. Take the rest of the money and buy lunch.

I sussed out some very good art for those prices.

I, myself adjust my prices to be within reason for the publisher's budget.  I figure it is kinda like giving back to the community in a way.  However, Luke's prices are crazy low.  If you don't have much of a budget, I would invest it in solid layout.  If the choice is between the two take layout over art.  Goes a lot farther as far as having a user-friendly piece of work that is also appealing

Also a cover doesn't have to have art either.  I know Fastlane is artless, including the cover.  If your game allows, choose something design oriented that your layout artists can cobble together.  If you look at a lot of novels you will notice little or no art (except the ridiculous romance and sci-fi/fantasy novel covers).

Highway fucking robbery Luke.  Highway fucking robbery.  How can you live with your self?

Keith

[Valamir]

Obviously he's connected...if you don't give him the art at the price he wants he sends some boyz with bats to negotiate further.

Seriously though, Ron has indicated that he typically will offer $100 to an artist to produce whatever amount of art the artist chooses for that price.

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

Here are some useful older threads about this sort of thing:

Art necessity
Dying Earth and covers
The cost of art
Elements of a great cover
Art: does it matter? and Does art matter? (split)

A lot of these have embedded links to further discussions too.

Best,
Ron

[Andrew Morris]

In my opinion, you need to make a strong visual statement with your game.

I agree completely. I just think that the cover does that much more effectively than the interior art. I tend to think that it's better to have a great cover and no interior art, than an okay cover and okay interior art. Yes, I know that price doesn't always equate to quality, but I've got nothing else to go on.

You can't put everything in the cover, so interior art can give people that many more places to emotionally latch onto the game.

That's a good point, and one I hadn't considered.

Also a cover doesn't have to have art either.

That's true, but I recoil from the thought almost instinctively.

Ron, thanks for the links. I missed  those first two when searching, and they were helpful.

[Ron Edwards]

Hiya,

Two interesting data points ...

1. The Whispering Vault has a brownish cover and a red circle/angular symbol. The book is a standard-sized with standard gloss, about (um) 144 to 160 pages, based on my memory, kind of skinny compared to a White Wolf sourcebook. The interior pages are white. Interior art, typeface, and layout was very good in my opinion.

It was absolute poison in the stores, in 1994.

2. The Burning Wheel has a brownish cover and a reddish cover, each with a circle/angular symbol. The books are digest-sized with a kind of textured, grainy feel, about 200 pp each (Luke? is that right? maybe a little less each?), making for a hefty-feeling but not fat-looking book. Interior pages are off-white, noticeably tan-ish. Interior typeface and layout are very good, with punk-ish "passion not gloss" art.

It does tremendously well in the stores (at the indie level, meaning steady low sales) and especially well in direct sales, 2003-2005. Speaking for myself, the BW books have a tangible satisfying feel when you pick them up, the sense that this is a grimoire which can be used.

Conclusion: no immediate correlate with any single feature. Do note the important difference between shipping off games to a distributor and then hoping they "take off" in the stores, and marketing them yourself with a direct eye on customer interaction and play-based sales/support.

Best,
Ron

[James Holloway]

Also a cover doesn't have to have art either.

That's true, but I recoil from the thought almost instinctively.

Hmmm. Many games have no obvious cover art, including both big sellers and disasters. It's obviously not a sales-killer by itself.

[Andrew Morris]

Yeah, Burning Wheel sold me on look alone. I knew absolutely nothing about the game, other than it was "fantasy." But when I saw it, I had to feel it. When I felt it, I had to pick it up. When I picked it up, I had to look through it.  When I looked through it, I had to buy it. Just like that.

Honestly, when I think about the best-looking game book I've come across, I think BW. I bought it because of the texture and colors of the paper. That's not a good reason to buy an RPG, but it does show that visual (and tactile, in this case) impact is important.

I've never seen Whispering Vault in print, only online, so I can't compare the two in terms of tactile appeal. Did Whispering Vault do better in direct sales than it did in stores, or was that not an option?

[Ron Edwards]

Hiya,

Direct sales in the modern sense were not technologically available in 1994, nor culturally (in the so-called "industry") even imaginable. You begged a distributor to carry you; he bought enough copies probably to cover your costs (orders were a lot bigger then); you got in the stores ... then you waited. That was it. The store was the industry, and the distributor was its prophet.

To relate all this to the issue of interior art, though, consider these games:

InSpectres, for a great deal of its existence: logo on the front, no interior art.

Dogs in the Vineyard: picture on the front, no interior art.

Both of which play very fast and fun, easily demonstrated; both of which are supported very actively by enthusiastic players as well as the creators; both of which get major support at conventions through the same avenues. Neither of which need to be in stores in order to make the publisher lots of money.

The role of the cover in attracting distributors, which was a major major 1990s issue, may well be entirely obsolete at this point, from our perspective.

Best,
Ron

[Keith Senkowski]

The role of the cover in attracting distributors, which was a major major 1990s issue, may well be entirely obsolete at this point, from our perspective.

Ron,

You crazy monkey, it doesn't mean that the cover is obsolete.  It means that it is growing up.  At least in the small press worlds.  Your two examples (Inspecters and Dogs) both look like books.  Not trash novels with over-done covers and such.  I see that as a sign of maturation in the industry.  A move away from the Fabio in steel covers to something much more appropriate to the content.

Keith

[Michael S. Miller]

Yeah, Burning Wheel sold me on look alone. I knew absolutely nothing about the game, other than it was "fantasy." But when I saw it, I had to feel it. When I felt it, I had to pick it up. When I picked it up, I had to look through it.  When I looked through it, I had to buy it. Just like that.

That is a brilliant breakdown, Andrew. The cover's job is to get them to pick it up. The look of the interior pages (art included) is to draw them into reading it. And perhaps buying it if they see something they like. So, make sure your pages look like something YOU would want to buy.

To keep going, the purpose of the text itself is to teach them how to play the game, and make them excited to do so. The online support is to encourage them to continue playing the game.... It all fits.

No great insights for anybody else--just the lightbulb in MY head.