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275647 Posts in 27717 Topics by 4285 Members Latest Member: - Jason DAngelo Most online today: 158 - most online ever: 429 (November 03, 2007, 04:35:43 AM)
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Author Topic: Sorcerer Doesn't Scare Me. What's Wrong with Me?  (Read 20909 times)
ejh
Acts of Evil Playtesters
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Posts: 309


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« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2005, 07:09:57 AM »

Oooh, that's really interesting/insightful.  

It sounds a lot like what is discussed in the excellent book "Killing Monsters."  If you haven't read it you might find it very interesting and relevant to these issues.

There's something important about "rejecting the Nice while still being Good."  I think there are false choices being presented by many different parts of our culture, and they have to do with the identification of the Nice with the Good, to put it in a kind of shorthand.  False dilemmas.

How can there be passion without violence?  It's a whole area of life where our culture is really confused and it's hard to talk about without it degenerating into nonsense somehow.
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Christopher Kubasik
Member

Posts: 1153


« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2005, 07:13:26 AM »

Hi guys,

Thanks for the replies.

I think we're running dangerously close topics that are not germane to these boards -- at least not this thread.

I'd even reply to the posts above -- I'd really really, really like to -- but I know that would spark a cycle of off--topic replies. So I'll pass.

Other than that, I'll say this...

That people like Kingston and ejh have strong ideas about "aggression" "violence" "niceness" and "Good" is what Sorcerer and Story Now games are about. Front and Center.

To put these concerns on the table -- and carry through the implications in front of God and fellow players -- and not hide behind genre and fanboy culture cliches is the name of the game. (This doesn't mean genre is bad. I  use genre elements to turn up these issues to 11. Its when we hide behind the genre elements and make the story SAFE from the "shudder" issues there's a problem.)

Everything Kingston and ejh typed out could be played out in a game based on the notes Ron typed out above.

That's the point.

If anyone wants to go further with that I think that'd be exciting.

And I think best served up in another thread. For fear of this becoming a "I have a thought about Christopher's ideas about moral issues too" thread I suggest we close this one for now (unless someone's got a post specfically on topic) and move further discussion about the following topics:

a) how gamer culture hides behind genre, why its there, and how to use genre elements without hiding behind it;
b) how would Ron's notes above play out with ejh and Kingston playing (for example);
c) how to bring more shudder to game play (in Sorcerer, HeroQuest, or anywhere...);
d) RPG-focused threads spun off of Kingston and ejh's posts;
e) and so on...

...to new threads.

Christopher
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"Can't we for once just do what we're supposed to do -- and then stop?
Lemonhead, The Shield
Ben Lehman
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Posts: 2094

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« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2005, 10:22:20 AM »

Hi.

I have a bit of a rebuttal to Chris and Ron http://www.livejournal.com/users/benlehman/75704.html">here

yrs--
--Ben
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Ron Edwards
Global Moderator
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Posts: 16490


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« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2005, 11:09:58 AM »

Hello,

Following Christopher's points in his latest post, this thread's closed.

Best,
Ron
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