[Misery Bubblegum] We were terrible, terrible people

[hix]

Shawn, Tony ...

I assume you guys are friends in RL. What was it like being friends, while in the game dicking on each other's characters and at the same time playing characters who (as I read it) had kind of a dysfunctional friendship?

My question probably applies even more to the example of play where the 3 characters seem to form a little clique of their own. Is part of the appeal of this game manipulating other people's characters into a position where their Traits give them no choice but to advance your agenda?

[TonyLB]

I don't really know.  When I was solo-playtesting (i.e. writing up the fictional example of play) I found it much more satisfying to create things that would naturally come into conflict than try to make something that would force another player to play to my own desires.

Part of that is... well... how would you even do that?  I mean, if Herr Doctor has a Desire "Oppress Others" and Igor has a Desire "Be oppressed" then, yeah, you have synergy, but Igor can scamper to another master to get that Desire, or (likewise) Herr Doctor can find someone else to oppress.

I think that's why we really felt the lack of a third player in our test, Shawn and I.  Part of why it descended into "hell is other people" is because we were inherently locked into each other.  There literally was nobody else in the game-universe for us to try to turn to.

And yet, isn't that always the case, in every game?  You can only turn to each other.  Even if one or more of you is playing many roles, it's the same player.  So any game where your character is dependent upon the behavior patterns of other players will probably exhibit this property of cliqueish structuring.

[Shawn De Arment]

Although Tony and I have only met over roleplaying, I consider him a friend. I have always had a good connection with him during play. I actually was becoming disturbed by the character's relationship. I was trying to push Tony's system, but as the game wore on it felt like I was just being mean to Tony.

The thing I have realized, in Misery Bubblegum, you don't play your character, you play the character others make for you. We made Ralph the jock and Jacob the nerd as names. From that point on, all the traits were stereotypical jock/nerd traits.  By the end, we had spiraled down to a cross between the movie Heathers and My Life with Master. I believe that you have to be very careful what traits you offer others.  Not to push an agenda, but because you will have to play against/with these characters. If you make one trick ponies, don't be surprised if you get one trick pony stories.

If more people were playing, it would have greatly improved the character's interactions. But with only 2 people, we focused on the core mechanisms, which I think was best for the playtest.

[Allan]

I mean, if Herr Doctor has a Desire "Oppress Others" and Igor has a Desire "Be oppressed" then, yeah, you have synergy, but Igor can scamper to another master to get that Desire, or (likewise) Herr Doctor can find someone else to oppress.

If Igor's Desire is "Serve Doctor" or he has the Role "Doctor's servant" that does force the character to serve another's agenda.  Should a specific Trait, that names another character, be treated the same as a general one?  

But I think it would still depend on the individual players' agendas and strategies.  I mean, Igor's player can still use Igor's loyalty Traits to set Igor up to fail in ways that will ruin the Doctor's plans.  Can't he?  

(Dieter protects Jessi by killing anyone who gets close to her, foiling her desire to help people and costing her the election.  Can NPCs die?  Death is never something you can narrate by winning meaning?)

[TonyLB]

You have to get pretty detailed before a Desire can't be satisfied by another person than the one who created it.

Ilsa says "Yes, Igor, you serve our master well!  Isn't it a pity that his arrogance prevents you from serving him better.  Truly, to serve him best, we must protect him from himself!"  Igor replies with a joyous smile "Yes, Ilsa!  You make it so clear!  I will prepare the chains!"

I'm genuinely not trying to be annoying about this.  I totally see your point about how the more specific Desires force you to be more creative to work within their constraints.  But I think it's cool that it's always so possible to subvert what seems like a clear "Be my subservient drone" desire.  

This is why so many great mad-men are surrounded by idiots, I suppose... no matter what you do, people just don't work as reliably as gears and pulleys.