Constructing a CCG Co-op?

[daMoose_Neo]

Its still kind of sketchy now, but could work out halfway decent.
Myself, I operate on a smaller spectrum, move a couple hundred decks a year when agressive, so I'm running about the same level as your mid teir Indy publishers here.
Lee (Veritas Games) on the other hand has some more experiance it seems with larger audiances and is working tword a mass-market release title.
If we can nail something down, we have a good chance of hitting close to both marks.

1) This is most certainly ideal, because then a good portion of the supplies we'd need would be orderable in larger quantities than any one of us would use and we could get it dirt cheap.

2) The initial proposal was centered around a recently developed system of my own, Duelist System/Pocket Games, however there is some debate as to the systems overall effectiveness. I am going ahead and releasing a title, The Supers, with that system, so we'll see what happens.

3) If we can't arrive on a system, this is most likely.There are a number of ways to go about it, as well. Delano, as Lee pointed out (In this thread I believe), costs around $4500 for 1000 packs of 100 cards, which isn't too bad. If even 2 designers split the run, each with 50 cards to a pack, thats 1000 units for about $2250, an unheard of rate stateside. Depending on details and printers contacted/used, overseas printing is MUCH cheaper, but can be a hassle to deal with sometimes. This is talking just packs of cards, however. Creative packaging, such as BCW plastic cases, would be an affordable and interesting/appealing way to package the cards.

Really, due to the costs and realities involved with the CCG markert, this is likely the best course for an Indie CCG developers circle to take. PDFs are good for the players who are into RPGs and already dig the whole indie movement, but your average CCG player won't touch it with a 10 foot pole, not for an actual/serious game. So, we've got to put actual product in their hands.
The idea floated above is based on the idea that a simple, "small pack" game is used. Supers, for example, uses 6 cards to the game/decks. The more you have the more options you have, but otherwise thats all.
On the other hand, I have a system in Final Twilight that is more complex, but uses a slightly smaller deck size (50 cards to a deck) than average.
Check out http://www.finaltwilight.com/ for the ruleset to that.

But yea, the advantages to this would be enormous. Several titles with the same system can appeal to more players, make it easier for those who take an interest in several titles, cross-promotions, advertising, all of that becomes attainable ^_^

[Polaris]

Nate,

Thanks for your speedy reply.

I am very interested in options 1 or 2.  I would also be interested in the possibility of being an investor in a card game that someone does with option 3.  I would not, unfortunately, be interested in option 3 if that is what ends up happening (I do not have a ruleset for a CCG/TCG).

William
ComStar
http://www.comstar-games.com
http://www.comstar-media.com

[Veritas Games]

Delano, as Lee pointed out (In this thread I believe), costs around $4500 for 1000 packs of 100 cards, which isn't too bad. If even 2 designers split the run, each with 50 cards to a pack, thats 1000 units for about $2250, an unheard of rate stateside.

This only works if you are sharing a common back, Nate, which seems sort of senseless unless:

A) the background is abstract; or
B) you use a common system and can therefore reasonably use a common back

Creative packaging, such as BCW plastic cases, would be an affordable and interesting/appealing way to package the cards.

Have you tried taping clamshell boxes shut?  Does the tape look unattractive.

Now I have seen plastic boxes where bottom slides into the top, allowing you to just tape the bottom shut.  I've also seen snap boxes.  You can put the cards in the snap box upside down and tape the bottom.  Those can probably work in distribution.

A cheap source for BCW boxes is at:
http://www.tcbulk.com/scripts/Plastic+Trading+Card+Boxes-ur1-9.asp

I'm gonna pitch onto the table the idea of using 2 mil hang hole plastic ziplock bags.  The 3" x 4" bags are only $12.99 per thousand and are suitable to hold a fairly large block of cards (30-40 cards).  Bigger bags hold more:

http://www.gtzip.com/ziplock/hanghole2mil.html

Not what I would distribute all games in, but that seems cheaper and more efficient for Pocket Games with 35 cards or less, Nate.

On the other hand, I have a system in Final Twilight that is more complex, but uses a slightly smaller deck size (50 cards to a deck) than average.
Check out http://www.finaltwilight.com/ for the ruleset to that.

Uh hem, mumbling under breath, "fix links to sample characters and cards." {grin}

[daMoose_Neo]

What the frell? I KNOW I changed those links when you mentioned it last time, what in the world keeps happening?!
Clamshells you'd probably want to staple shut or use some kind of sealant (hot glue). Tape doesn't hold well, our supplier for some cellphone accesories at me day job use tape and its just about worthless, doesn't hold up to customer abuse at all.

The sliding boxes are what I'm keen on for the next run of Twilight decks. Get some simple round stickers to seal the edges, it'll look more professional and work just as well. Some places will even run them off with a imprint, such as a logo or such.

[Veritas Games]

Clamshells you'd probably want to staple shut or use some kind of sealant (hot glue). Tape doesn't hold well, our supplier for some cellphone accesories at me day job use tape and its just about worthless, doesn't hold up to customer abuse at all.

Stapling and hot glue?  That sounds extreme.  Sounds like you'd have to break the box to get into it.

Re: your links Faust and 3rd street station are still broken.

[daMoose_Neo]

A dab of hot glue in the corners of the clamshell would keep it sealed, only way to have it open is intentionally. Staple, if we're talking just regular staples, these aren't hard to remove at all. I know thats how we've ended up solving the problem at work, a quick staple to the corner keeps the product in the pack and on the shelf, not on the floor or all over another department.

re: Links - not sure what your issue with 3rd St. Station is, but there was a slight typo on Faust's link.

[Veritas Games]

Shrink wrap or cello-wrap is an option, but it's an additional expense.  I still think that the smartest way is with the sliding boxes and with two clear labels on the bottom to seal the box shut.  That'll be a lot more professional than hot gluing a box shut.  And hot glue might leak into the container and get on the cards.

The 3rd st. station file is listed as damaged.

[daMoose_Neo]

That'll be a lot more professional than hot gluing a box shut. 

Oh yea, most certainly wasn't thinking that. The hot glue would be used on difficult clam shell packages that have the tab & hang tag at the top- you'd have to dump a LOT of glue onto that anyway to get it in with the cards. The clear labels were what I had in mind in the first place- nearly invisible, non-intrusive with the design, and excellent at keeping the product sealed and with the right sticker, tamper evident.

The station is now fixed as well!