Whither The Quest?

[Clinton R. Nixon]

Jesse,

Your examples seem like instances of "mood-makers." They're not necessarily relevant in terms of an emotional story, but like you said, give you a feeling of danger about the place.

I'd draw the line like this: use encounters of this nature to get your players (and their characters' actions) in the mood. If you're in a frightening cave, and they should be cautious, slam them with some bizarre cave creature, and see how they act afterwards. If they get it, there's not much of a need to throw another "mood-maker" in. If they don't, try again.

It sounds like I'm advocating attacking the characters until they act a certain way, which I'm not trying to. What I am saying, though, is - if the characters are already cautious and frightened, you don't need to throw in encounters like this. If they're not - these sort of encounters are good reminders of the current situation.

[Ron Edwards]

Jesse,

In many ways, that line will have to be drawn by you and your group, for the stories you and they create together. I cannot draw it for you, any more than I can write a novel or screenplay for you. This is where you must, basically, hit the heavy-bag on your own. The fact that you have articulated the existence of such a line is what really matters - by doing so, I have full confidence that you can establish its position as a practitioner.

One tiny point: in The Scarlet Citadel, Satha plays a bit more of a role in the story than you imply, first in eating the fellow who comes to torment Conan (and get Conan the keys), and second in establishing to everyone that Pelleas is a mondo-bad-ass via Satha's reaction to him.

I agree with you totally regarding the lions and the spider in Tower of the Elephant; in fact, I find them perilously close to filler. One of my problems with much role-playing design is that people are used to starting with filler, hoping one or more of it becomes a Bang, whereas I think it's better to start with true Bangs, adding filler or "punctuation" as the secondary step.

Best,
Ron

[Christopher Kubasik]

Hello Jesse and everyone,

I, too, thought the lions and the spider in the "Tower of the Elephant" to be close to filler.  In fact, reading them I thought, "WTF has Ron sent me to read this?" But then Conan discovers the elder tortured god thing and really, I was amazed.

That said:

Be careful of what you model.  This is a lesson I'm still learning, and need, frankly, to stop learning and shuck off my mental back.

We can find a model for almost anything with great writing to terrible writing. Finding a bad moment, or a moment you mistrust, in something you really enjoy on the whole doens't require or encourage justifying or coming to understand how it worked in the whole.  Sometimes a part of a whole just isn't as good as the whole.

The Fire Swamp sequence from the Brincess Bride film, for example.  I still remember clearly sitting in the theater, watching that, and thinking, "Oh.  Where did this come from?"

It's just not as good as the rest of the movies.

I offer, humbly, as I'm still learning to do it myself, trust your own instincts -- in both what you make and what you enjoy consuming.  If some encounters strike you as terrific bangs (or whatever) trust that.  If something seems wrong, trust that too.

And when it's time to do your own work -- whether in writing or gaming -- toss out all the "models" and examples and know you know what's good and what's bad for you right now.  Yes, it's a shame we can't make the most perfect whole based on the best bits of all that's come before.

There's nothing to be done about that.  

But. There's freedom in that knowledge, too.  You won't be writing or gaming thinking, "But when James Cammeron does it...!"  You'll be doing what you do -- which is a lot more important to you than what James Cammeron does.

And, by doing what you do more, you'll get, in time, even better at being you.  Which is a good thing.

Salute,
Christopher

[jburneko]

Hello Again,

Ah, the, 'you're thinking too much' answer.  Sometimes, that's all I really need to hear.  Thanks guys.

Jesse

[Clay]

Jesse,

If you're having trouble finding the line between bang and fluff, try keeping something else in mind:  Bangs move the story.  Ron's encounter with Frik was important because the attacked person already knew that Frik was controlled by a certain person. It established that this person is the bad MF that they're after.  If they hadn't previously known that this person controlled Frik, the encounter would either have been a) fluff, or b) setup for a nasty revalation to come (like when they saw Frik hangin' with the mayor).

[contracycle]

Hey Ron,

Having the the character attacked by wolves (ONCE) upon venturing into the Dark Forest.

Having a sorcerer's tower guarded by hideous gargoyle-like demons.

I don't think these exist as ENCOUNTERS, aka scenes, for narrative purposes - they are there to portray setting and genre.