[Realm] Mechanic details and queries [LONG!!!]

[sayter]

The last week or so has been spent fililng details out on the world in which my game is set, but also I have devoted a portion of this time to a workable game machanic that is a little more fleshed out than what I already had on the table.

Essentially, I wasn't happy with the overall core Attributes since I felt some aspects were lacking. What I am doing here is giving a basic description of how the mechanic works as it stands now, and putting it up for combat practice for you folks. Armor vs Damage will also be presented in its very basic raw form.

I will present this in a logical format for reading....an actual play example. Since I know you folks know about dice rolls and whatnot, I dont need to dumb it down aside form brief explanations on what things do. So, here goes.

Barg the Warrior has chased down his elusive foe, Kota the Assassin. They have clashed time and time again, but Barg will see to it this time that Kota does not live.

Barg confronts Kota in the middle of the woods, as he stalks his next mark. Barg isn't all that stealthy (Stealth 2), but he knows a lot about survival in the wild (Survival 6). This at least lets him move quietly in the woods.

However, Kota is a seasoned assassin, and knows when hes being tailed. His Awareness attribute is astounding (7), and he is extremely perceptive (6).

Barg tries to sneak up on the assassin. He rolls his Focus attribute(again, not amazing, at 3) and adds his Survival to this (6) for a total of 9. He rolls 2d6 in addition to this and gets a 7. His total roll is 16. Kota rolls a counter to this, to see if he notices his assailant (he needs to roll this, despite higher stats, because its opposed).

Kota has 13 base using his Awareness and Perception. He rolls 2d6 on top of this and gets a 12. He has a total of 25. This beats Barg by 9. Not only that but the roll of 12 was a critical success. Barg never had a chance.

Kota has 9 successes to spend on "bonus actions". The Critical Success adds 2 additional bonus points to this roll which gives him a total of 11 points. He opts to spend them to sneak around behind his opponent, who foolishly thinks he is on the trail of the assassin and about to take him down. This uses up, say, 8 successes. the other 3, Kota will save for initiative bonus in the combat soon to occur.

Barg sneaks up, ready to catch the assassin off guard. But Kota is already preparing to strike him from behind.

Now, initiative comes into play. Every character has "Action" points they spend in battle. These are based off the attributes "Agility" and "Awareness" x2. Barg has 18 action points, and the faster and more aware Kota has 24. Actions costs are mostly predefined (weapon speed=action cost and other activities also use action, such as moving, skill use and so forth) but custom actions can also be declared and cost is determined through GM decision or player concensus.

Initiative is essentially a bid. Players spend soem action points at the start of a turn to secure their place in the combat round. Their Focus attribute is added to the bid for final values. Highest goes first, as is the usual case. Barg is still cautious and so he puts 10 points into initiative and adds his Focus(3) for an initiative value of 13. Kota, on the other hand, uses 10 points as well and uses his focus (also 3). This puts him at 13 as well, but with his initiative bonus from successes he has 16.

He goes first, with 12 Action to spare.

Barg only has 8 points of action left.

Kota leaps from the bushes behind Barg, knives already slashing at his foe. Kota rolls to hit, using his Agility attribute and Melee skill. Additionally, Kota is specialized in small knives and has a Technique to suit. This technique is at level 3, which gives him an additional +3 to any rolls he makes.

(forgive me here if i contredict previous stat ratings listed above, not working from a character sheet here, just shootin numbers off)
Kota has Agility of 5, and a melee of 4. His technique adds 3 to that. That means 12 before a dice roll. With 2d6 he manages to total 20.

Barg heard the crash behind him and rolls to dodge(cant' parry since the opponent came from behind, we'll assume) using his Awareness+Dodge(normally it would use Agility, but this is a special case scenario). He has 3 Awareness, and 3 Dodge. 6...not lookin good. However, he has a Physical Aptitude of 1, and this lowers any difficulty he needs to beat by 1. This effectively makes Kota's total 19. Sadly, he has no way to beat Kota's roll regardless, unless he rolls a critical success.

He doesnt. His total comes to 16. This means Kota again scores succeses, but only 3 this time. Thats enough to add a single point of damage to his attack.

Damage resolution: Kota has a short knife in hand. It does Damage of 2s(2, slashing), and its speed is 4 (4 action per attack). He spent his succeses to increase its damage by 1. This makes it Damage 3s. He adds his Brawn(strength) attribute to this total, making it Damage 7s.

Barg is wearing ringmail armor. It has a DR(Damage Resistance) of 3. Additionally, it has a Res(Resistance) of 1s(1,slashing) which means it is better against slashing weapons due to the way it is made. Thus, any slashing attacks against it are automatically at -1 damage.

So a base DR of 3, plus 1 slashing resistance makes a total of 4 resisted damage from his armor. This is in ADDITION to his natural damage resistance. We will assume this is 2. So, he resists 5 damage from the attack.


From here the combat would go back and forth, each side using up action and bonus successes as obtained via rolls. When the action on both sides is used up, it refills and the next turn begins again, with initiative being checked and so on. (Note that Action can be used to run away, use skills, defend, all-out-attack and many other options)

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Problems:

I need a physical ability to soak damage (a la WoD from WhiteWolf) that makes sense to the system. However, with no dice pools this isn't quite as applicable as I would like. In WoD its easy, just roll your stamina. The amount of successes nullify that many points of damage. I have three possible factors I have used so far.

1. Endurance attribute derived Natural Armor: Equalling 1/2 the Endurance attribute, rounded down (so, an endurance of 3 would have 1 Natural DR, an endurance of 8 would have 4 natural DR)

2. Redundant rolling. So we have Roll to Hit, Roll to Dodge/Parry, Roll to Soak(if hit). Couple problems with this method. I want to avoid having tons of rolls. I would rather have it simply go...Try to Hit....Fail...or Try to hit...succeed...apply damage.
       Second issue...what roll to BASE it on? In White Wolf you would simply roll Endurance pool, and successes scored would lower the damage by that amount. Cant work that way here. It has to be OPPOSED in some way, or have a difficulty. Giving every weapon a Difficulty seems pointless, and making them roll a second time to check if they soak damage after they fail a dodge/parry seems just as redundant.

3. physical resistance based DR. Every character has a "Mettle" stat, which is the equivalent of any sort of physical resistance. Poison, fire etc are resisted with this trait. However, I am not sure I like this one being used for physical damage resistance. Resisting poison and a STAB to the chest are VERY different things, after all.

The only other real problem I see in this, is the possible issue with a "static" damage being applied. Granted, strength modifiers add to a weapon damage and successes can furtehr be used to alter the damage or armor piercing quality of the strike.

But without successes, a 2s knife with 5 Strength bonus ALWAYS does 7 dmg. If a target has 8 damage resistance they essentially become immune to damage, unless the attacker rolls successes. This is admissible in SOME situations...but in the event where the target is NOT vastly more powerful than the PC, this becomes a definite issue.

Any thoughts on viable solutions to the physical resistance issue? And possible suggestions on damage revision?
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[Adam Dray]

You can abstract combat a bit. Your "to hit" roll becomes a "to hit and damage" roll. That is, roll the soak into the "to hit" roll.

When Kota hits Barg by, say, 3 successes, that's 3 damage. There is no soak after that because it was already factored into Barg's defense roll. Defense must now include dodging, natural armor, worn armor, magical protection, and so on.

[sayter]

Attributes:

This is a list of the (current ane likely final) attributes

PHYSICAL (combat, climbing, running etc)

Brawn: Physical strength]
Agility: Physical speed and dexterity
Endurance: Toughness, constitution, ability to exert oneself

MENTAL (study, investigation, etc)

Intellect: Raw physical intelligence
Awareness: Alertness, notice of the world around you
Focus: Ability to maintain mental control, keep your eye on the ball, etc.

SPIRITUAL (magick, holy, Dreamer, etc)

Power: Spiritual essence, and the amount of it within yourself
Control: Ability to control the spirit/soul of yourself.
Belief: Your belief in a power (self or deity or other) and how you
         interact with the spiritual.

SOCIAL (persuade, seduce, etc)

Demeanor: The way you portray yourself outwardly. Attitude,
                appearance, method of interaction, manners etc.
Charm: How you interact with others, and manipulate them.
Guile: Your social cunning, and deceptive side.

Aptitudes: Lower related difficulties by 1 per level. Aptitudes are Physical, Mental , Spiritual and Social, respectively.

Mettle: Physical resistance to effects.
Will: Mental resistance to effects.
Ward: Spiritual resistance to effects

Vitality: Health is measured in 3 levels. Health, Wounds and Mortal Wounds. Health is derived from Endurance x2,  Wounds are Endurance +4, and Mortal Wounds are Endurance flat rating. Wounds give -2 to all rolls (+2 difficulty), and Mortal Wounds give +4 difficulty (-4 to all rolls).

Action: Derived from Agility + Awareness x2

Ki (Raw): measure of magickal essence. This essentialyl determines what you can and cannot cast. Derived from Focus + Control.

Ki (Attuned): Yuor "mana pool". Derivd from Focus + Control + Power.


Those are the basic "core" stats.

Skills are fairly "broad" in their scope. Such as the skill "Athletics" or "Martial Arts" versus Running, Climbing, Jogging, Jumping, Kung Fu, Karate, etc etc etc ad infinitum.

[sayter]

AdamDray

Thing is, I am absolutely aiming for using Successes purely for EFFECTS.

So say Kota hits Barg, and gets 10 successes.....He has a WEALTH of options now (and wil use them, since damage hasnt yet been factored)

He uses 2 successes to get +1 damage. 4 succeses to increase ArmourPiercing by 1 level....he has 4 succeses left. So, he decides to carry those extra scucesses over to the next turn to count for defense. These for successes would give +2 total defense in the next turn.

So now, when he hits with a knife that does  Damage 2s, it becomes damage 3s +1AP......that means it negates the ringmails Resistance modifier completly. So now the damage doesnt lost anything in transition.

i like the maleable aspect of this concept, since it has a very pulp/anime feel to it, where a seemingly ordinary attack could cleave a tank in two, granted that the successes were great enough and the skill high enough.


there is one "soft" value i think would function adequately, being the Endurance / 2 idea. its easily calculated and available at a glance. But does this seem pheasible in the grand scheme of things? should a more "robust" method be applied?

[Dangerboy]

Instead of going the WoD way, you can go the Exalted way. Soak was automatic (so I guess youcan call it damage reduction).

Also, Secret of Zir'an uses the Finesse System. You record the number of points you beat a roll bu and you can use those points to buy effects. White Wolf publishes this also.

[sayter]

Aye, I know of Zir'an, though I thought it was a different publishing company?

In any case, the idea of using the successes for effects is a neat one and it fits my concept well. I had come up with the idea and my cousin pointed Zir'an out to me, and it lead to one of those "dammit someone beat me to it" moments.

So its just a matter of making mine a little different than theres, so as not to be a replica.

And yea, exalted uses "auto" soak...the issue with that in my system is that damage becomes difficult to do in any way once you get a high enough level in Endurance.

For example. Bob hits with the Knife with 2s damage. He has 5 Brawn(strength). That makes it 7 damage.

Jim has a DR of 4, plus an endurance of 4. Thats 8 damage reduction. Bob can do no harm unless he rolls a couple successes instead of just a flat successful roll.

If I went the Endurance/2 route, that at least means the maximum anyone can have in a natural soak is 4, plus their armor. So, with a full plate suit we will assume he might have DR 12. Thats a hell of a lot less than DR 16 in the grand scheme of things.

Hmmm the more I think on it, the more End/2 makes sense for the natural DR of a specific character.

[Dangerboy]

I was working one something similar when I read about Zir'An too. The system I'm working with is roll dice (=to stat) and roll under TN (=to skill). Tally successes and spend the die Number to purchase effects. I got the same "got to it first" idea.

[Nogusielkt]

Maybe I just don't understand your system in the way you explained it, but why would you want to bid high on initiative?  Wouldn't it be more effective to just bid 0 or 1, go last and use the rest of your action points to beat the tar out of your opponent?  I know the advantages of going first, but why spend half of your action points just to do that?

[sayter]

Well, you COULD go last and use it for more actions....except it doesnt do you much good when you are unconcious or dead yourself.

Think of it this way...yes, you get more effects. However, EVERY action uses "action" points.

You want to go last, that likely means you are on active defense, so you are using points either way. Plus if going last that means anyone that wants to hit you first, does so at their leisure.

So, bob spends 1 point on initiative. Everyone else spends 5 or more. Even the Big Bad. The big bad things Bob looks mighty tasty. So while bob is sitting there on defense , Big Bad has just hit him , and with a nice round of successes manages to do about 40 damage to Bob. Bob has 30 HP. Bob is now no-so-concious, and rather unhappily bleeding, profusely.

its all a matter of strategy. yea, you can forgo initiative. or you can go first. its up to you. Personally I like going mid-turn, since it lets me guage where people are going to be, how much i will need to move and so forth.