[&Sword] Trading Victories Question

[James_Nostack]

On page 70 of Sorcerer & Sword:

On a successful roll you may choose to bump the victories all the way down to an inconclusive tie, to save them for later!  They may be used... to cancel "non victory" dice of a successful roll, whether yours or a foe's.  This is a great way to enjoy or avoid the effects of Total Victory!

I want to make sure I understand this.


Example 1 - Enjoying Total Victory
Let's say we are in Round 2 of a fight between Conan and a Hideous Spider.  In Round 1, Conan traded away three victories.

CONAN ROLLS: 10, 8, 6, 3, 3
SPIDER ROLLS: 6, 4, 2, 2, 1, 1

Conan has won with two victories, but decides to trade those three victories from Round 1 to erase his 6, 3, and 3 result.  Thus he achieves Total Victory with 2 dice.

Simple enough!  

Example 2 - Avoiding Total Victory
Let's assume that the dice had fallen differently.  Conan still has his three "traded away" victories from last time.

CONAN ROLLS: 6, 5, 4, 2, 1
SPIDER ROLLS: 10, 10, 9, 8, 7, 7

The Spider has an impressive Total Victory with six dice.  If you can only remove "non victory" dice, and by definition Total Victory means all dice are victory dice, how can you "avoid" Total Victory?

[Ron Edwards]

Hi James,

Sorry 'bout the delay; the home wireless is acting funny. Let's see if I can stay on-line long enough for this to work.

OK! I'll focus on your second example.

Basically, the only way Conan can escape the effects of Total Victory is to have six saved victories.

a) Let's say he did. He uses them. The spider still "wins" in terms of narration, but Conan takes no mechanical consequences.

b) Let's say the rolls and situation stand as you described, so he doesn't. What he can do is buy off three of the existing six successes, so the Total Victory does remain, but with three victories, which is at least better than six from Conan's point of view.

Best,
Ron

[James_Nostack]

No problem with the delay Ron, and thanks for the answer!

Would it be clearer to say, "Victories that you traded away in the previous round can be used to remove dice, either yours or your opponent's, in the current round starting from lowest die that person rolled to highest"?  This appears to be mechanically identical.
 

[Ron Edwards]

It's sure as hell not clearer to me. But you can say it that way if you like it better.

However, I don't see why "lowest to highest" is an issue. Perhaps I should clarify that trading victories will never remove the basic fact that character X won the roll; it can only alter the degree of effect.

Wait a minute, I'll hunt up some older threads for you.

Best,
Ron

Found'em. See Sorcerer & Sword combats, Last (?) combat question, and Holding victory dice.
and screwed'em up, so had to edit again! all fixed now