How important is system complexity?

[Resonantg]

G'day people;

My question may have been asked before, and if so, please refer me to any links I may have missed. :c)

During the development of my game, I've been getting asked/told that the system I'm making is far too complex to sell.      I've had many complaints that rules heavy is dead and only rules light is the wave of the future.  But in researching the validity of such statements, I've been seeing a return towards more crunchy systems and have had to ask, if that opinion really carries much weight.

So the question is, how complex is too complex?  Are complex/crunchy games dead, or is the industry trending the other way?  And lastly, how much does game complexity affect you in your decision to purchase or play a game?

Just curious of opinions here. :c)

[TonyLB]

That's one of those unanswerable questions.  You should have as much rules complexity as you absolutely need in order to achieve your intent with the system.  Not a rule more, not a rule less.

Luckily, when you've got a system (any system) that's running and achieving your purpose, you can usually tell what's necessary during playtest.  Is a rule not getting used every single session?  Then it's probably unnecessary.  Axe it.  Conversely, are your players being forced to make ad hoc solutions to a certain type of situation every single session?  Then you're missing a rule, and they're filling in the gaps.

As for what will sell... systems that work well sell.  Admittedly, that's an item of faith for me, not a real argument.

[Alan]

I don't think that taking a poll is going to help.  For one thing, we have no idea about the nature or degree of the complexity in your game.  The only way to tell if it's "too" complex, is to get some people from your target market and ask them to play test it.

That said, here are some other comments:
- Complexity will be a barrier to many people, especially newcomers to roleplaying
- Complexity will be a draw for others (probably a smaller number)
- A game should only be as complex as it needs to be to achieve your design purposes

- Complexity for it's own sake is worthless
- It's your game.  You decide what your design purpose is.

My suggestion: playtest with people outside your normal group of players.  In particular, give them the rules and let them, without any introduction or input from you, figure them out and apply them.

[FzGhouL]

As long as the rules are natural and flowing, then even systems that are complex can be picked up quickly. Elegance is key. Things should be easy to memorize, easy to predict, etc. A game with 40 pages of rules detailing a single aspect of the game, with numerous details, could still be easier to use and more effective with your system, than say a rule set of any other size.

It also depends on the intent of complexity. If you decide to make something more nitty-gritty because you want to simulate something, IMHO you aren't getting anywhere. A rule should give power to the player and take some other power away by limiting scope.