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Author Topic: A update to the game formally called GUILDS  (Read 3402 times)
matthijs
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Posts: 462


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« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2005, 12:09:09 PM »

If you want players to focus on the guilds, perhaps you should tie the reward system up to the guilds?

So that instead of getting XP for fighting opponents (just as an example; I don't know what your rules actually say about this), you could get XP for doing what's good for the guild. And instead of XP increasing skills in general, they could increase your rank in the guild. The higher the rank, the tougher the adventures.

You could also have players accumulate points (call them Standing, for example) for their guild, and at certain break points (every 100 points, for instance), describe how the guild becomes more successful.

These are just quick examples - the point is that it's a good idea to think through exactly what behavior you want your game to encourage, through its reward system.
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Adam Dray
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« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2005, 12:46:03 PM »

[Crossposted with matthijs, but no harm done. His examples fit nicely with what I'm saying.]

First, let me explain that first part that you don't understand.

How does game play proceed? Tell me the typical sequence of events in a game, in abstract terms. For example, in D&D it's something like: Players roll up characters. DM then prepares an adventure for them. During the adventure, the DM describes a place and the situation and the players react. Etc.

How are GM powers distributed? Does your game have a typical GM? That is, does a single person do all the things you think of as GM things, or do players get any of those powers at any time? For example, some games have a revolving GM, and my Verge game gives the "GM" ability to set difficulties/target numbers to the players.

Who has the authority to contribute content to the Shared Imagined Space and in what ways? Everyone at the table contributes to the SIS. When the GM says, "You see an orc," he has invented an orc in the SIS and established that he's within visual range of your character. When the player says, "I hail him in Orcish," you've established that your character can talk, that your character knows Orcish, and that there is even such a language as Orcish. Maybe the rules said there was such a language but maybe you just assumed and made it up. Games are full of assuming and quiet assent from other players that allows everyone to introduce all kinds of wonderful ideas into the SIS without a whole lot of talking about it. Good rules nail down exactly who has the authority to make various kinds of statements about the SIS.


Regarding a reward system, you've told me just over half of it: how players spend XP to increase skills. You haven't told me how players earn XP and how often and when they're allowed to spend it. I think you're making tons and tons of assumptions based on "my game is just like D&D except here and here and here." I don't know a lot about your game, so I'm not assuming right off the bat that it's just like D&D (or any other game), though the picture is getting clearer by the minute that you have a pretty classic Fantasy Heartbreaker here.


Guilds! Cool, this is the part that has the potential to be unique. I don't know of any fantasy game with a strong system for managing guild interactions.

You haven't told me anything about the systems you had in mind for managing guilds. What kind of rules are behind this, or is it just setting and color?

In what you wrote, I see a couple hooks that might turn into system:

"The player can choose a guild from the book." Okay, a system to describe guilds, perhaps with some stats or maybe not, but a system nonetheless.

"They can invent there own guild." A system to create a guild from scratch. Rules to limit and inspire guild creation. Is this a player adding a guild to the city as if it had always been there, or is this the player having his character create a guild, or both?

"If you do good things for your guild you can gain rank and if you do bad things you can lose rank or your life." That screams System. How do you measure what a "good thing" or "bad thing" is? How do you measure rank? What game currency do you earn that allows you to climb in rank?

"A guild is also where you get your jobs from." Is there some kind of system to generate jobs? Who makes up these jobs? The GM? The players? A random roll on a table? A draw of a deck of guild job cards?

"In this world because guilds are so very important and each guild has a rep when people need things done they go to a guild." Each guild has a rep. There's gotta be a system for that. Are reputations ranked numerically or is it a qualitative ranking like "well respected among the other blacksmith guilds but hated by the tanners"? Can a guild have different reps for different relationships?

"If you are not apart of a guild you will find it very hard to find work or anything really because people do not trust you." Ooh, trust. How do you plan to model that? Have you read an indie game called The Mountain Witch? You can read the Iron Game Chef version of it for free. It has wicked cool Trust mechanics that might inspire you for your game. Do you have a system in mind to show if you can find work outside of a guild?

"From here the story takes over." Frankly, I think this is a cop-out. The story doesn't take over. The story doesn't have a brain. The story is a construct of hard, creative work on the part of the play group, and they need your help. Give them a good system so that they can create good stories instead of getting bogged down in discussions about stuff your system should tell them.

If you really like the guild thing, do chase it. Look how many system ideas I found in your one paragraph about guilds! It's just yelling out for some development. I hope you can see why a couple of us read your mention of guilds and went, "Dude, cool, do that!"
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Adam Dray / adam@legendary.org
Verge -- cyberpunk role-playing on the brink
FoundryMUSH - indie chat and play at foundry.legendary.org 7777
OddballE
Member

Posts: 24


« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2005, 08:46:31 PM »

Thanks for the help in the last 2 posts.  It has givin me something to think about. 

How does game play proceed?  it is pretty much Players roll up characters. DM then prepares an adventure for them. During the adventure, the DM describes a place and the situation and the players react. Etc.

How are GM powers distributed? The GM has complete  control over the game and what direction it goes.

Who has the authority to contribute content to the Shared Imagined Space and in what ways? The GM has the authority over things.

People earn XP by weekly and have based XP then the GM can add or subtract XP based on style of play the players play.  The players can spend XP at any time they want and the effects of the XP take effect instantly.

As far as the guild system we are working on that know so things are a little brief.  I do want the guilds to be a main part of the system so we are trying to build the rest of the setting around guilds. 

When you create your own guild it can be either as it has always been there or you can start the game with a brand new guild.

Right now the GM finds the jobs as part of plot, but have been toying with the idea of random jobs to get the players started in the game,  or something like that.

You are right with the cop-out answer and I need to come up with another answer.  Right now that is about all I can give you on guilds.  The posts have givin me alot to think about and I see now I need to go back and fill in some of these gaps in guilds.
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John Pace
Oddball Enterprises
Owner/Founder
Adam Dray
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« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2005, 12:12:53 PM »

"The GM has complete control over the game and what direction it goes." I doubt that's true, so you probably don't want to tell your players that. You just described a situation where the players have no input at all. If you're a GM in such a game, you might as well just write some fiction and distribute it to the players to read about "their" characters. Now, really, I assume you want players to have an impact on the games they play in, right?

I am probably being unfair here. If you meant to answer that purely within the context of my question, "How are GM powers distributed," then maybe you mean that one person has all GM powers and everyone else has "normal" player powers, whatever normal means. Still, that may lead to some trouble, like all the complaints of "railroading" that you see on the D&D email lists and stuff.

To my question, "Who has the authority to contribute content to the Shared Imagined Space and in what ways?" you answered: "The GM has the authority over things." I don't think you're saying that players have no authority to contribute content to the SIS. That means that players sit there quietly and don't say what their characters are doing, ever.

Regarding rewards, I don't know if biweekly experience works. If you fail to meet for a month, do you get XP anyway? What styles of play should the GM reward?


I don't know how "the GM finds the jobs as part of plot" unless you mean "makes stuff up out of his own imagination" when you say "finds." It's okay to just leave things to the GM, but a lot of people will want some help with this part.

Go do some work and come back and let us know how things are progressing. If you have questions, we're here for you!
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Adam Dray / adam@legendary.org
Verge -- cyberpunk role-playing on the brink
FoundryMUSH - indie chat and play at foundry.legendary.org 7777
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