I love it

[Ron Edwards]

The new book, I mean. As an object, a physical representation of what Conspiracy of Shadows is, it's beautiful. It has "Keith" on every page, stylistically, and every page is about something without being this huge mass of words.

The only thing that's not-quite-Keith is the absence of "fucking fuckety-fuck" as a frequent adjective, but I can live with that, although I do sorrow slightly.

Best,
Ron

[Paul Czege]

Ron,

Since when do you buy second editions!

Paul

[Keith Senkowski]

Ron,

Thanks.  I'm real happy with how it turned out too.  It just feels right this time around.  I think the layout really came together once I went to the new size.  Pieces just started falling into place on their own.

Don't worry though.  I got a few ideas for a game to incorporate the fucking fucktard that fuck the fuckballs as a core element of the writing.

Keith

[Larry L.]

I just got mine yesterday, and am also suprisingly pleased with its beauty as an object. I had some misgivings hearing it was "moving down" to a digest-sized book, but now I am very happy I held out for the new one. Also, new titles like Polaris and The Mountain Witch have been hogging the "Wow what a nice looking book" spotlight. This compares quite favorably to those.

I don't totally dig the style of art, but that might be because the book really feels like it should be illustrated by elaborate medieval-style woodcuts. I understand the impracticality of that, though.

[Keith Senkowski]

Glad ya dig it man.  My book is pretty too damn it!

I find my art to be hit or miss with folks.  People either seem to love it or hate it.  At one point I considered doing all the art as stained glass windows like you find in gothic cathedrals, but I'm a lazy fucker...

Keith

[Michael S. Miller]

Me, too!

The book is evocative, yet easy to read. I'm fond of the stark black and white art, myself. It meshes well with the game's tone. Well done, Keith.

[Eero Tuovinen]

OK, OK, I get it. I have to find out what the game's about. Because you're intentionally not writing actual play reports at the Forge or doing anything to let a poor retailer make an informed investment decision. But if Ron Edwards is endorsing, I'll have to at least find out what's the deal.

So, what's the deal? Is this a good game? Is it sellable? By "good" I mean innovative and in general like all those other games I've bought for retail, except those few which have proved in closer inspection to be so bad as to be unsellable (no, there's no "Forge game", whatever that is, which belongs to that category). Is it traditional or focused? Are the rules realistic or formalistic? Is the designer a fair chap with the right indie ideals, and does he contribute to the commonwealth?

Because if this is something I should be selling, and nobody's told me, then there's still time: Luke Crane is making a post-Gencon package of games that didn't make the box at the convention, and it won't be leaving in a couple of weeks yet.

[Judd]

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=175208

I'm not sure if I talk enough about the system to make it worth your while but the follow-up thread certainly will do so, since many of the new rules in the revision, like trust and doom, will play a major part in the game.

[Thor Olavsrud]

OK, OK, I get it. I have to find out what the game's about. Because you're intentionally not writing actual play reports at the Forge or doing anything to let a poor retailer make an informed investment decision. But if Ron Edwards is endorsing, I'll have to at least find out what's the deal.

You mean actual play reports like this one?

CoS is definitely a game that you should take a look at. I go over many of the interesting mechanics in the post above. Long story short though, Keith has taken many of the great ideas percolating here at The Forge, mixed in his own magic ingredients, and come up with a game that plays wonderfully at the table.

[Eero Tuovinen]

Yep, Thor told enough about the mechanics to tell that the game isn't completely traditional. Perhaps it's like Burning Wheel? Judd: that conspiracy is awesome. I love gothic horror, but the conspiracy aspect has always felt extremely tacked-on when I've read any blurbs for the game. Like I could be interested in some vague truth-is-out-there shit, when Dracula is about horror and in-your-face human issues. But that Leviathan conspiracy is... I want to play that. Is there similar shit in the book, or are you just injecting your own lyrical genius?

For the academically interested, why I've not bought the game, even if I tend to get all games that have a forum here: the system looks very traditional with abilities, skills and lots of die rolls. The material on the forum has mostly been monster-of-the-week. Mixing conspiracies, fantasy and gothic horror seems like a kitchen sink attitude. The overall impression is that of a fantasy heartbreaker with WoD-derived rules systems. Fix that (assuming of course, that the above impressions are false), and you might increase your appeal.

Keith: if you're interested in being retailed in Finland, PM me. Arkenstone has a web-shop and extensive convention presense here. The Finnish market includes a remarkable amount of people who don't own credit cards or don't want to buy overseas. Thus our market does not overlap with yours. It's not as good as direct sales, but it's something.

[Thor Olavsrud]

Yep, Thor told enough about the mechanics to tell that the game isn't completely traditional. Perhaps it's like Burning Wheel?

I think there is some influence from Burning Wheel and The Riddle of Steel (maneuvers, destiny pool, doom), but I think one of the most visible influences on this game, at least the Revised version, is The Shadow of Yesterday (die rolling system, bonus and penalty dice). But both Sorcerer (Triggers and group Kickers, descriptors, spirit magic) and The Mountain Witch (Trust) are clear in CoS as well.

The Conspiracy elements in the game are what you make them. The conspiracy is not pre-defined. Instead, there is a conspiracy creation system so you can customize the conspiracy to the group. You could have a small conspiracy that includes Dracula and his plot for the Harkers. You could do a large conspiracy along the lines of something for Cthulhu Dark Ages or even Ravenloft, with cults and weird gods. You could do that new Brothers Grimm movie that is currently out in the US. It all depends on what you and your group are looking for.

I think you may have a mistaken impression of what the game is all about. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised if you give it a look.

[Eero Tuovinen]

Sure. As I said, I know nuthin'. Thanks for the info. The game's actually sounding rather interesting. I've been thinking about getting into something a tad more elaborate for a change, and it's good to have something other than BW and TSOY to consider.

I'll talk it over with my brothers and recommend getting us some CoS. Even if there's lots of new games coming out, I think that we can fit it on our shelves.

[Judd]

But that Leviathan conspiracy is... I want to play that. Is there similar shit in the book, or are you just injecting your own lyrical genius?

Lyric genius?  Shite.

I needed a conpsiracy to face off against pirates.  I went to the book and answered the conspiracy questions and voila.

More on the Conspiracy of the Deeps:

http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=14429.0

[Larry L.]

CoS, unlike other medieval horror games which give you the "there are bad guys, and they keep it a secret," actually tells you in explicit detail about the operations and setup of conspiracies. In fact, I rather expect Keith to be raided by the Secret Service at some point.

[John Harper]

Just got my copy of CoS Revised today. Wow. Very nice work, Keith. I have the original edition, and it never really grabbed me. But this new book has me by the throat. After the current play of Dogs, CoS is next on the block. Er, after Polaris. And Breaking the Ice. And TSOY revised. And Burning Wheel revised. And The Mountain Witch. Dammit! Too many great games right now.

Anyway, I'm impressed. Kudos to you.