A sorcerous dueling system grounded in the elemental cycles

[dyjoots]

Ok, I noticed just after posting that Influence doesn't mean anything. I have no idea what I was thinking.  How embarassing, for everyone to see...

Since I am posting further explanations, "Focus" would be analogous to your Energy needed to cast spells and the extra successes needed to increase a spell's effect.  For example, if I ended up with 5 Focus points for my roll to cast Vitae Curdling Transmutation, I would spend 2 for the spell (right?) and then 3 for extra effectiveness.

[Jux]

In reponse to the specific concern of the system being enough to handle all eventualities:
- Should height (the archer on the wall) effect range substantively?
- is movement altered by conditions: swimming, ice..etc.

Otherwise it seems like on the scale encounters ought be happening, this would be more than adequite and as you noted as a second concern, shouldnt interfere with action.

would ask something else, but am crashing at the moment.
still elated.

[Shreyas Sampat]

Lastly, a question to you all. I just considered the possibility of counterspelling an enemy's shield. As in, you attack with the Fire Harm spell Coruscating Ribbons of Crimson. They give up their next spell to respond with an Earth Shield, Floating Prism Refraction, which will trump your assault. Should you be able to give up your next spell to attempt to Counterspell their Shield? If I take this option, the trump relation will be Shields trump Counterspells of the element that creates them, but are trumped by Counterspells of the element they create. If I implement this rule it will make Counterspells objectively better than Shields, but that's not necessarily a bad thing as most casters will end up knowing a Shield or two through their school, anyway, and will just have to live with it and learn how to use them.

An interesting detail about this is that you may not use the trumping counter against the trumping shield, because you're always prohibited by destructive cycle; I'm not sure whether you took this into account when you say that it makes Counterspells objectively superior; it certainly reduces their superiority somewhat. The situation with Aegises is different, though, as Liquid Mirror of Uncertainty, a Water Aegis, will draw an Earth counter like Radiance of Planet-Taming Crown, which gets a bonus from creative cycle (Does this matter when trumps are involved? I think it should.). That puts Aegises in an ugly place.

(...) Then as the magical duel progressed, you'd have each sorceror deciding whether to siphon off magical energy to create spell effects or letting the cycles of creation and destruction continue. (...)

This is beautiful. May I use it sometime in the future?

[Jeph]

In reponse to the specific concern of the system being enough to handle all eventualities:
- Should height (the archer on the wall) effect range substantively?
- is movement altered by conditions: swimming, ice..etc.

I think I'll just write a paragraph or two on winging modifiers for differences in height and modes of movement. For instance, penalties of -2d or so could be assigned when using a secondary movement mode--a walking bird, swimming or climbing human, etc. Also, logic must be used to determine what movements are and are not possible: If you are at Casting range of an enemy perched on top of a four story high stone tower, and you are at the tower's base, you can't very well approach to a closer range, and they can't chase you if you decide to retreat without hurtling to their demise.

An interesting detail about this is that you may not use the trumping counter against the trumping shield, because you're always prohibited by destructive cycle; I'm not sure whether you took this into account when you say that it makes Counterspells objectively superior; it certainly reduces their superiority somewhat. The situation with Aegises is different, though, as Liquid Mirror of Uncertainty, a Water Aegis, will draw an Earth counter like Radiance of Planet-Taming Crown, which gets a bonus from creative cycle (Does this matter when trumps are involved? I think it should.). That puts Aegises in an ugly place

An interesting detail that I hadn't noticed--thanks for pointing it out! I think I like the implications of it, actually. I'm not sure what you mean, though, when you say that when an Aegis draws a trumping Counter, the Counter gets a bonus from the creative cycle. Could you elaborate?

As things currently stand, no, creative cycle bonuses to a trumped spell usually won't matter. At the moment I think I prefer to keep things that way, but I'm receptive to suggestions of how to treat the matter differently.

I'd also like to formally rectract my statement that Counters are superior to Shields, now that a few more rules have been drafted. Firstly, as Shreyas pointed out, a trumping shield can't be trumped by a counter. Secondly, shields are useful against physical attack. Thirdly, shields last until your next action, and thus have added utility in a melee. Lastly, with the range and positioning rules, shields do not take distance penalties, while counters do. Counters still have their advantages, though: you can't counter a counter at all, and shields are no use against an Alter or Aegis.

[Shreyas Sampat]

I'm not sure what you mean, though, when you say that when an Aegis draws a trumping Counter, the Counter gets a bonus from the creative cycle. Could you elaborate?

I realised later this doesn't make sense, because you can't raise an Aegis after the attack occurs that you're defending from, unlike the parallel situation with Shields.

Nonetheless, here's the situation:

Player 1: Fire Harm: Coruscating Ribbons of Crimson
Player 2: Water Aegis: Liquid Mirror of Uncertainty (trumps Fire because Water douses Fire) (you can't actually do this to protect yourself from the fire attack))
Player 1: Earth Counter: Radiance of Planet-Taming Crown (trumps Water because Earth traps Water; gets creative cycle bonus because Fire creates Earth).

Another thing you might find a good source of inspiration is the Field Effect system in the videogame Chrono Cross; I'll try and dig up some stuff on it if you are interested.

[Bill_White]

(...) Then as the magical duel progressed, you'd have each sorceror deciding whether to siphon off magical energy to create spell effects or letting the cycles of creation and destruction continue. (...)

This is beautiful. May I use it sometime in the future?

You flatter me; of course.  I've tucked it away myself for a future project that, like all such things, may never see the light of day.