Forge Booth Customer Feedback

[M Jason Parent]

but if everyone who stopped by the booth was told, "We also run off-the-books games in the Embassy suites after the dealer floor closes," that might help this issue.

Yes, that would have been a great idea. Did you notice those loud parties taking up most of the 15th floor of the Suites every night of the Con except Friday (Friday was a quiet evening after the ENnies with Peter Adkison)? That was based out of my suite, but I would have been QUITE happy to take a break from night after night of loud and drunken parties to be able to play some of your fine games.

VERY happy.

Definitely something to actually advertise next year. I'm kicking myself now for not knowing.

[Vaettyr]

Oh, one other thing that I forgot to put in my original post, but really got to me.

Up front pricing. Seriously, put the price of your game on the cover, or somewhere equally as visible. If a game doesn't have the price printed on it, make sure the customer knows it before they go to the register, whether they ask or not.

I only say this because at one point someone pretty much sold me on their game. I knew it wasn't entirely my thing, but it looked small and unassuming, so I figured what the hell, I'll give it a try. I felt a little misled when it rang up at the register for roughly twice what I was expecting to pay. My bad for not asking price, maybe, but I still felt misled.

I know a lot of people balk at the prices versus production values of certain games, but that's their issue. Tell them why it's worth that much, but don't let them get to the register only to put your game back because it's a lot more than they thought it was gonna be.

[Kesher]

What didn't I like?

• The display rack was a hindrance and was almost standing on top of one of the demo tables.
• The hard selling.  Not so much a problem for me to say "no thanks", or whatever.  However a friend of mine who was with me at one point, who is just beginning to wet his little toes in the wild ocean of indie games, was really turned off by an aggressive designer.  I think I talked him down with "You know, they write these games and they're passionate about them", but he still didn't buy the game...  Malcom was a good example of how to sell.  I demoed a/state based purely on his enthusiasm, not planning at all to buy it, but he didn't push me and now look what I've been reading compulsively ever since I got home.
• Not knowing that after-hours games were going on!  Aaaarrrrrrgggghhh!  And I even managed to FIND the Embassy Suites!  Seriously, though, if this was something that was open to interested people in general, you need to let them know.  Of course in retrospect I could've simply asked someone if games were running elsewhere, but still... I read the IndieGameExplosion thread today and almost started weeping...

What did I like?

• The absolute friendliness of everyone there.  It feels weird to go up to some designer whose stuff you admire and, y'know, whose ideas you've been stealing and say "Hey, I'm Aaron Kesher, it's nice to meet you", sorta hoping they'll recognize your name.  However, every time I did it I got "Hey, nice to meet you, thanks for buying my game, etc".  And I'm damn sure not all of you recognized my name!
• The fact that you never ran out of games.  I bought stuff in three passes over three days, like $400 worth of stuff, and there was always more there when I came back.
• The sheer beauty of many of these games.  I was really blown away.  Whatever the size of the game, from a/state down to Dogs and Polaris, it was clear that the designers selling through the Forge booth REALLY CARED about every aspect of their product.  Another friend of mine picked up Dogs back at the hotel just because of how it looked.  Then, as often happens, I imagine, he couldn't put it down and ended up buying his own copy.  This is a guy who is a hardcore D&D3.5 DM, fer krissakes, and he was hooked by palpable love.

What would I like to see changed?

• Well, I guess I covered the open game thing already...
• More room.  The suggestion made earlier about a demo space and a display/retail space is an excellent one.
• I think someone mentioned this already, too, but an info sheet about the Forge in every bag would've been a great idea, with a comprehensive list of designers' websites, etc.

This isn't totally on-topic for booth feedback, but the Design Workshop was absolutely the highlight of the Con for me, and I'd love to see more things like that in the future, too.

Thanks for being there and for working so hard, all of you!

Aaron

[Trevor]

Honestly, most of what I have to say has already been said somewhere on here, but I figure that this is as good a place as anywhere for my first post here on the Forge...

The sheer enthusiasm as the booth was inspiring. The fact that everyone there was passionate about the games beings sold (even those that aren't their own) is great. It inspired me to finally get an account on the forums after years of lurking.

I had two problems, both of which have been stated before.

Firstly, there was the whole credit card issue.

I honestly would have probably walked away from that booth with twice as many games as I did if it weren't for how much of an ordeal the first purchase I made was. The fact that buying with plastic involved sending my credit card number unencrypted over a public Wifi network also made me a bit leery, and that I went through with it is a testament to how much I wanted copies of the games I was buying.

The oft-mentioned hard sell was the other issue.

Listen, I like you guys. I like your products. I loved hearing the pitch and playing the demos. But GenCon is a big show with a lot of vendors, and I'm a college student that isn't exactly rolling in funds. There wasn't a game that was pitched to me at the show that I wouldn't have liked a copy of, but nevertheless I couldn't afford them all. Adding to that the entire credit card fiasco limiting my purchasing power to the limited cash I had on hand, there was only so much I could spend.

When I said "I'd really like a copy of your game, but I can't afford it right now," There are a dozen games I saw at the show that I plan on purchasing sometime in the future. It's going to need to wait a few paychecks though.

So thanks for the games, and I look forward to participating in the forums. If next year you get the credit card thing figured out and you push a little softer while peddling your wares, I'll have no complaints.

[JamesSterrett]

As one who complained last year, a few notes:

On my (rare and rapid, unfortunately) trips through the dealer hall, I did make a point of trying to go to the Forge booth.

I managed to have two contradictory impressions:  that it had enough space, and that it was full and/or too busy for me to make time to go in [the old "I'll come back later" lie].  I managed to peek at the sales rack and have a quick chat with Mike Holmes.  Next yar, I will make more time [and invest in that bridge-buying opportunity, and...  :)  ]

Even after the con closed, it managed to have a vibe of being "where the cool people hang out" about it.  Possibly simply because I knew what it was  :) --  but it always had a buzz of conversation.

[Todd Bogenrief]

First off, Hi everyone! (I'm sure most of you at the Forge booth would recognize me if you saw me, even though I rarely talk much to anyone because of my crippling shyness)

I make it a point to stop by the booth every year and buy about as much as I can afford without coming home and getting yelled at, although I did get yelled at this year... too much good stuff to buy! :)

What I didn't like
This has been echoed many times... the display rack is awesome, but I think it has outlived its days if you continue to grow like you have been.  Some product is too low to the ground and the stuff hidden back can't catch the eye or browsing convention goers.

Some of the sales tactics were in the neighborhood of "used car salesman".  I understand that everyone really wants to get there game out to the public eye, but I don't think that gamers need the hard sell.  The hard sell works, but it just seems like kind of a turn off. 

What I did like
The vibe coming from the Forge booth reminds me of what I really love about gaming.  The Forge booth generates an aura of awesome that makes GenCon about a hundred times better.

Getting to actually talk with game designers?  Kick ass!  I wouldn't have come as far as I have with my own games if it weren't for The Forge.

What I would like to see changed
If you could get more space that would be cool, but I understand that the next bump up in booth size is a bit steep so I understand you not getting more space.

More "official" demo games and maybe a list of all the scheduled events so people interested in getting deeper into a game's mechanics and vibe can pre-reg for a game or show up with generics to try and get in on a game. 

[Coffee_Lifeform]

Honestly, most of what I have to say has already been said somewhere on here, but I figure that this is as good a place as anywhere for my first post here on the Forge...

The same goes for me - as a long-time observer, it's about time I actually posted something; and a call for general customer feedback seems like the ideal situation to do it.

What I liked 

The range, scope and quality of the games on the stand was incredible. I sincerely doubt there was a gamer at the con who couldn't have found a game they would thoroughly enjoy there, and - having spent quite a lot of time checking out the rest of the trade hall - I can honestly say that no other booth had anywhere near the breadth of theme, system and innovative design that was on display at the Forge.

Having the game designers on hand to demo their games - no-one (no matter how experienced a GM or close a friend of the creator) will ever know or show off a game to its best advantage like its author.

Jasper (?) The Guy With The Black Contacts. Booth bait for girls - the Forge, we salute you! But seriously, though, the number of people (of both sexes) he drew to the stand through sheer charisma was unbelievable. I'm not sure who he was or what his game was, but every time I saw him he was enthusiastically explaining a different game to an entranced audience.

What I didn't like

I know it's been done to death, but I have to say the hard selling at the Forge booth was the worst part of my entire con. I'd always thought of the Forge as an intellectual melting-pot to help independent games designers work through game issues, meet like-minded new people, share experiences, and boldly take RPG design where no-one had taken it before. The majority of the designers on the booth upheld that belief. However, a few people there seemed determined to destroy it by promoting a secret new game called "Battery Farming - The LARP", where you play a chicken forced into a horribly cramped cage with a number of other equally confused chickens, and are not allowed out until you have laid some golden eggs; at which point, you are seized by another farmer and the game begins again.

It's entirely possible that, as a newbie, I've missed some threads explaining how production-line values are an integral part of the indie games scene; and I do appreciate that the Forge was competing against the biggest names in the industry at GenCon, but as a random punter who tried to approach the cash register with books in hand and had other books physically shoved on top of what I had already decided was all I could afford and was ordered to buy them, I was not only unimpressed, but genuinely angry. I approach used-car lots with an expectation that someone will try to hard-sell me something I don't want; it's certainly not my expectation when I approach somewhere with the reputation for leading-edge, intelligently-designed games that the Forge has.

What would I like to see changed?

I found the Embassy Suites sessions a fantastic opportunity to explore in greater depth (and without the accompanying hard-sell) games I was particularly interested in, but they don't seem to have been promoted at all - I think it'd encourage more people to make repeat visits to the booth if these games were scheduled more formally and advertised more widely.

Space for demos also seemed to be a big issue, and I know it's been repeatedly mentioned before, but a bigger booth, if you could afford it, is definitely the way to go.

Apologies for quoting the same tired issues, but I figured that the more people who agreed it just felt wrong, the more likely it is to be changed for next time.

Cheers,

Cat Tobin.

[Andy Kitkowski]

Apologies for quoting the same tired issues, but I figured that the more people who agreed it just felt wrong, the more likely it is to be changed for next time.

Not at all, dude. We totally appreciate it. After all the feedback here on this very issue from customers from all walks of life, you can be assured that we'll do everything we can to avoid this from happening next year.

Thanks again!

-Andy